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9,063 thoughts on “Greatest Warrior of All Time

  1. Sachin
    My ans- So if you accept that Karna was not helpless, then Arjun did no wrong thing to attack such capable(not helpless) Karna…. Otherwise what do you you expect from Arjun ? To keep getting hit by Karna’s arrows & silently watch the up & down jumping of Karna from his car ????? thanks for proving my point…..
    My ans So you admit that karna on chariot was capable of knocking out arjuna and arjuan knew it that’s why he had to kill unarmed karna.
    Sacin ans- Meaningless arguement…. Sanjay cleary said that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS.. And EQUIPMENTS includes all including normal arrows/celestial arrows/spears etc..… So your worthless arguement of isolating the normal arrows here is rubbish as usual & hence punctured….. I dont need to give anymore explainations about this…..
    My ans you have already admitted the chariot had celesital equipment also now you have admitted that karna could go back and knock out arjuna. So this vague description of sanjay is non contextual
    My statement-“If you don’t believe in supernatural then sizzling arrow fired Krishna saved arjuna.”
    Sachin ans- Supernatural point… Hence invalid…..
    My ans- Nothing supernatural about the supreme charioteer saving his master. And who the hell are you to decide whats valid and whats invalid ??

    My ans Of course it does. Arjuna was in ghughuprasad mode hence he battle deviated.
    Sachin ans- Still Proves nothing….
    My ans it prooves arjuna was always alice in wonder land in front of bhargava astra .
    My ans of course it was not active battle. Arjunas halaat was like the victouriou pehelwaan in the movie dabangg seeing salman khan approaching him only he was defeated.”
    Sachins ans- Proves nothing….
    My ans Same as my previous statement. Alice in wonderland = arjuna
    Sachin ans- I didnt know you were so ignorant about the qualities of King Cobra snake which is exclusively found in India & Malaysia only…. FYI, King Cobra snake eats other snakes only…… So king Cobra eats Viper snake(another poisonous snake) as well….. So when Viper sees a King Cobra in front of him, Viper snake(Karna) bows down in front of King cobra(Arjun) as a sign of his weakness & submission in front of King Cobra… [Just like Karna was begging in front of Arjun when Karna saw his death in front of him]….. But still the King Cobra shows no mercy & bites the Viper(Arjun attacks Karna), then Viper also retaliates by biting the King Cobra, but Viper’s venom does not affect King Cobra(Karna attacks Arjun but could not kill him, only make him swoon temporarily)… And in the end Viper dies of Cobra’s venom & then King Cobra eats the viper(Arjun kills Karna) ….. So does it prove that Viper was not Helpless in front of King Cobra just because Viper also bit King Cobra(Karna made Arjun swoon temporarily) ?? Certainly not….. Just like Viper was helpless in front of King Cobra, Similarly, Karna was also helpess in front of Arjun, hence he started begging…..
    My ans rubbish from the animal kingdom or rather about snakes is non contextual in mb debate.

    Sachins ans- So you accepted that Abhimanyu was killed by a joint attack of 6 Kuru Maharathis(including Karna) & Karna attacked abhimanyu when he was already busy fighting with other Kurus… Great … i proved my point…..
    My ans Actually what I meant was that even if karna does it in group attack its not cheating. I have proven it was not a group attack in the blog fall of mahrathi vrisha sena
    My statement-“And karna not cheating to kill abhimanyu has already been proven by me to you.”
    Sachin ans- Well you yourself answered your own question by guessing my response…. great going Niraj…. This proves that you yourself know that your claims are rubbish….. Ok… for the record my response- Ha..ha…ha…. when did this happen ?? In your dreams ?? You were already beaten in our previous discussion about this…. and Karna’s cheating to attack abhimanyu when he was already busy fighting with other Kurus, has been proved on umpteen times… & you yourself accepted it above…… So i won again…..
    My ans No Sachin both on bhima vs karna who spared who and abhimanys bow cutting its you who have lost
    My ans Utter lie Sachin he was struggling with his chariot wheel on battle day 17 when killed.”
    Sachin ans- Utter lie again…. Did Karna fire divyastra in this battle ? Ans is YES….. Did Karna kill Arjun in this battle ?? Ans is NO……. Did Arjun kill Karna in this battle ?? Ans is YES…. Hence proved that the divyastra wielding Karna COULD NOT KILL Arjun but Arjuna indeed killed a divyastra wielding Karna on his own steam…..
    My ans Rubbish as usual. When firing divyastras its was even steven. Karna was not firing divyastras when killed No arjuna did not kill divyastra weilding karna but unarmed karna.

    Sachin statment
    And Is there any rule which was laid down by Shrimaan Niraj before the start of MB war that if a warrior(Karna) is not firing a divyastra in the middle of a battle then his opponent(Arjun) MUST NOT kill him at that time….. And the opponent(Arjun) should request that warrior(karna) to please fire a celestial weapon & then only he(Arjun) should kill him at that very moment… otherwise that opponent(Arjun) will face the wrath of the Great arbitrator of MB war- Mr Niraj Blah blah blaha so on and so forth
    My ans Rules were laid down by bheeshma at the beginning of the war. My point is not accusing arjuna but observing arjuna. He just didn’t have it in him to kill a divyastra weilding warrior.
    My statement-“divysatra with arrows are in any case are superior to only arrows. You never proved that divyastra are inferior to arrows.”
    Sachin ans- Punctured arguement….. The results speak of themselves…. Maharathis who were killed with Normal arrows- Bhishma, Karna, Bhagadatt, Jaydrath, Viraat, Drupad etc etc…. Maharathi skilled with diyastras(Non-WMD)- Zero…..
    My ans No of divyastras nullified by arjuna and no of divyastra weilding warrior killed by arjuna zeo.
    Your statement-“Agreed drona did not give up immediately but bhima penetrated that news to psyche. Drona.”
    My statement-“Whenever karna fought with divyastra ie battle 11 or bhargava astra 17 he was undefeated.”
    Sachin ans- Lo kar lo baat….. If Karna was not defeated then who was defeated- Arjun ?? And Karna won the war ??…..Ha..ha..ha…ha … Now dont blame me laughing because your jokes are really hilarious….Ha..ha..ha…ha..
    My ans Its arjuna who won the war but only by cheating or rather attacking unamred warriors. Your laughter wont change this
    Sachin quotes And your cheap EXCUSES of “Cheating” is rubbish as ever, because there is no such thing called “cheating” in a war & Arjun killed Karna in a fair one-on-one war….. Your plan seem to be repeating the same garbage again again… But it wont change the fact….
    My ans Actually its your plan which seems to be repeating the same garbage again and again and it wont change the fact. Your statement no such thing as cheating is ample evidence that you are runnig out of defence.
    My statement-“You had made this claim with bhima as well that on battle day 17 karna was firing divysatras and bhima knocked him out many years ago. I am still awaiting those passages.”
    Sachin ans- Read the above passages about what your favourite Karna is saying about you & his duvyastras…!!
    My ans show me evidienc of bhima as the event defeating karna when he was weilding divyastras
    Sachin ans- Worthless EXCUSES….. It still does not change the fact that Karna COULD NOT kill any Maharathi on his own steam….. And he COULD NOT kill Ghatotkach on his own steam hence he had to resort to his BEST Weapon-Vasavi to kill a 2nd line Pandava warrior……
    My ans arjuna did not kill bheeshma drona or karna on his own steam so hence same logic applicable to arjuna
    Sachin ans- Well i acted as per your advice only(by talking on the basis of Vyas MB only)…. But you are yet to act on my advice & still talking in air from Niraj-puraan…..
    My ans rubbish. You havent given any evidence.

    Sachin ans- Lo aur suno…. Karna firing all of his divyastras(except Vasavi) still COULD NOT kill any Maharathi…. And You mean to say that karna was nothing without his celestial weapons ?? Well, this clearly proves how weak a warrior Karna was …..
    My ans well your not entirely wrong. With ordinary arrows he was inferior to arjuna
    Sachin further says And this is like a Batsman who got out on Zero after playing 30 balls, is now saying that i couldnt score any runs because i didnt use my favourite bat…!! And any average batsman can score a century on his best form day, so just one century doesnt make him a great batsman….. Real warriors do not give EXCUSES but they produce results in every situation… Arjun/Bhima/Abhimanyu/Drona/Bhishma etc produced results even when without using divyastras….. Drona killed Viraat & Drupad with normal arrows, which even Karna COULD NOT DO any Maharathi….. And Karna’s divyastras(except Vasavi) were worthless weapons, hence they were only useful to kill foot soldiers…. Hence Karna producing any results with his divyastras against a Maharathi is non-contextual…….
    My ans he spared the lives of bhima yudhi nakula and sahadeva
    Sachin ans. You give this personal opinion one million times but if bhima is shown attacking karna karna fires astra whole battalion is booted away then dude it includes bhima”
    Sachin ans- I am still awaiting for your passages from KMG….. Your Nira-puraan opinion has no place here……
    My ans Your sachin puraan is also a pile of garbage. I have given passages maybe you read them the same way you read mr. dhruvs warning which was to both of us
    My statement-“Karna defeated arjuna twice”
    Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…
    My ans My sympathies. Jab insaan ka dil tootta hai to uska asar seedha dimaag par lagta hai
    My statement-“Sachin you back to your old tricks again. After being defeted by me in karna vs bhima battle day 14 and proving it to you that its karna only who spared bhimna you are babbling the same nonsense again many pages later.”
    Sachin ans- Niraj, you back to your old tricks again. After being defeted by me in karna vs bhima battle day 14 and proving it to you that its bhima who spared karna 1st, hence Karna sparing Bhima later is non-contextual, because Karna was already living a borrowed life….. you are babbling the same nonsense again many pages later…..
    My ans you had lost that debate.
    My statement-“HERE UNARMED KARNA IS REQUESTING. BEFORE ARMED ARJUNA AS AT THAT STAGE KARNA IS UNARMED SIMPLY BECAUSE HE HAS ALIGHTED HIS CHARIOT AND IS ON FOOT. NOT BECAUSE HIS STOCK OF WEAPONS IS EXHAUSTED. LATER HE GOT BACK AND THRASHED ARJUNA”
    My ans- Well as rightly pointed out by Sujal, Karna himself putting his weapons down in front of Arjun is a sign of accepting DEFEAT (Hathiyaar dalna)…… so this proves that it was Karna’s plan to first accept defeat & then convince Arjun to stop the fight(by begging him) & not to kill the defeated Karna…. Had Arjun accepted the mercy plea of Karna, then Karna would have took his own time to take his wheel out or he could have called for fresh chariot/back up support staff etc & then he would have again challenged Arjun for a 2nd round (Just like he did on multiple times on day 14 against Bhima)…… But Krishna sensed that & being a smart & cunning person, Krishna knew that accepting Karna’s plea would only prolong the duration of MB war, hence he provoked Arjun to kill Karna then & there only….. Further Karna had the option to fight from ground, so this proves that instead of continuing the fight from Ground, Karna chose the option of accepting defeat in this round(by putting down his weapons) & saving his life at this time & to come back later…… And Karna’s life saving DRAMA is further exposed by the fact that the same car wheel was extracted by Shalya later with the help of his horses only, which the heavily built Karna COULD NOT…… this proves that Karna was only pretending to take his wheel out, so as to gain mercy from Arjun……
    My ans No such thing is mentioned in mb. Both you and sujaal are just expressing opinion.

    Further more sachin its you who had lost that debate between us as in the end it was proven that unarmed warrior cant spare armed warrior it ended on my statement was below on feb 243
    Niraj says:
    February 23, 2015 at 3:15 pm
    Sachin its you have lost the debate. Unarmed warrior cant spare armed warrior. And that’s the bottom line. You have not punctured any argument of mine. You made a pathetic attempt of quoting bhimas previous encounters jarasandha keechaka etc which was punctured by me. So practice what you preach .
    Smarty made ovservation on feb 23 2015
    Arjuna and karna had to be very strong lad. and as said by me since Archery was regarded by everyone as the foremost mode of fighting in those time, warriors were rated according to that.
    otherwise why would duryodhana who considered himself the best mace fighter ever fight with bows and arrows. similar was case with Ghatokacha , Shalya.
    A guy which stands 8 ratnis tall which huge arm and broad chest cannot be physically weak . if Karna was physically weak why would Shri Krishna give a description about Karna’s physique.
    Karna not agreeing to fight a wrestling match with Bhima may be becs of two reason.
    1) he was scared to fight a wrestling match
    2) where was the compulsion of fighting a wrestling match ?
    BUT BHIMA SPARING KARNA BECS HE THINK so is absolutely impossible . he had to be the rubber guy from Fantastic four.
    two lines here read this in cap letters.
    approaching that multitude of elephants and getting into the midst of that fastness which was inaccessible to a car, THE SON OF PANDU, DESIROUS OF SAVING HIS LIFE, REFRAINED FROM STRIKING THE SON OF RADHA.
    Desirous of shelter, that subjugator of hostile cities viz., the son of Pritha, uplifting an elephant that had been slain by Dhananjaya with his shafts, waited there, like Hanumat uplifting the peak of Gandhamadana. 1 Karna, however, with his shafts, cut off that elephant held by Bhima. The son of Pandu, thereupon, hurled at Karna the fragments of that elephant’s body as also car-wheels and steeds. In fact, all objects that he saw lying there on the field, the son of Pandu, excited with rage, took up and hurled at Karna. Karna, however, with his sharp arrows, cut off every one of those objects thus thrown at him. Bhima also, raising his fierce fists that were endued with the force of the thunder, desired to slay the Suta’s son. Soon, however, he recollected Arjuna’s vow. The son of Pandu, therefore, though competent, spared the life of Karna, from desire of not falsifying the vow that Savyasachin had made. TheSuta’s son, however, with his sharp shafts, repeatedly caused the distressed Bhima, to lose the sense. But Karna, recollecting the words of Kunti, took not the life of the unarmed Bhima. Approaching quickly Karna touched him with the horn of his bow.
    now how can Bhima who fled , tried to slow Karna’s chariot can spare Karna from a distance.
    Arjuna attacked Karna to protect Bhima at the command of Shri Krishna.
    Followed by anand shankars statment
    Anand Shankar says:
    February 23, 2015 at 11:33 pm
    Smarty, Karna was indeed a strong man. But in physical might neither Karna nor Arjuna was his equal. Karna himself says that Bhima was superior to all in pysical strength. Bhima snatched Karna’s bow and hit him with that bow. Karna didn’t hit him back. Then, Bhima challenged Karna for a hand fight, but Karna didn’t accept that challenge. All these things prove that Bhima was superior to Karna in physical strength.
    I have always said that Karna got upperhand when Bhima lost his all weapons. But then, Bhima, to protect himself retreated to a safer place. And Arjuna was also in his vicinity. If Arjuna can protect Satyaki, why can’t he protect Bhima ? He would have never let Karna kill Bhima at that time. So you can not be sure whether Karna was in position to kill Bhima or not.
    MY OBSERVATION HERE EVEN ANAND AGREES THAT BHIMA COULD NOT HAVE SPARED KARNA AS UNARMED BHIMA IS INFERIOR
    AND HERE SACHIN IS THE PROOF OF YOUR DEFEAT. NOW THAT YOUR BHIMA SPARING KARNA RANT WAS PUNCTURED AND RECOGNIZED BY OTHER BLOGGERS YOU FROGGY JUMPED TO ARJUNA IN YOUR NEXT POST
    1. kill Karna. Same way, Bhima also had to retreat in last round.
    Reply
    2. Sachin says:
    February 24, 2015 at 11:22 am
    Ways to defeat Arjun:
    After thorough analysis of the fighting capabilities of Arjun & all of his contemporary warriors, i would like to find the answer to an interesting question that- “Was it possible to defeat the champion Arjun in a full fledged fair one-on-one war ??” or what were the Ways to defeat Arjun ??
    Now lets see how many Maharathis had the capabilities or the best chance to defeat Arjun:
    – Since warriors like Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Bhagadatt, Ashwatthama etc all had their shot against Arjun & no one could defeat Arjun, hence all of these warriors gets ruled out in this category…..
    – Now the only name which comes to my mind who could have threatened the victory march of Arjun would be Bhima, because Bhima never had the shot at Arjun, hence we can only assume the result of this fight….
    First, let us see the difference in the warrior capabilities of these two warriors:
    – Arjun was the best in long range fight with bows & arrows, whereas Bhima was nowhere close to Arjun in long range fight….
    – Bhima was the master in Close combat fights & the best in this…. Now whether Arjun equal or inferior to Bhima in Close combats is hypothetical conclusion because we hardly saw any close combats of Arjun in MB…..
    – But i would only guess to say that Bhima would have been better in Close combats than Arjun…. Reasons are as below:
    1. Arjun was not famous in India for close combats but Bhima was…..
    2. Bhima took special training of mace fight from Balaram, which arjun did not take…..
    3. Yudi sends Bhima to kill Bakasur in a wrestling match (& not Arjun)…. This shows the greater confidence of Yudi on Bhima…. although the reason may be that Bhima was elder than Arjun, hence he took the responsibilty (Yudi cannot go because he was the future king)…..
    4. Jarasandh chose Bhima(the best) for wrestling fight (& not Arjun) because of his ego…..
    5. Bhima had more experience of close combats than Arjun… but to be fair to Arjun, he never required to face a close combat because he easily defeated his opponents in long range combats…..
    Now lets see, what could have been the best scenario for Bhima to defeat Arjun…..
    – I believe the ONLY WAY by which Bhima could have defeated Arjun, would have been in a CLOSE COMBAT…..
    BUT, in a full fledged war between Arjun vs Bhima, where both warriors had to start from there best warrior skills, hence Arjun would have attacked with his bows/arrow & there was no way BHima could have counter attacked with his mace(or close combat), hence Bhima would have been forced to use his bow/arrows only,….. And the result of this fight would be obiviously Arjun winning…
    And even if Arjun had made Bhima bowless/carless, & if Bhima had indeed approached Arjun for a close combat with mace or wrestling, still Arjun would not have even allowed Bhima to come close to him & he would have destroyed his mace with his arrows & would have injured Bhima so much that he would not have been able to walk further (Remember how Arjun incapacited Bhishma on day 10, when bow-less Bhishma was trying to approach Arjun with sword in his hand)…..
    So it is clear that there was no way Bhima could have reached upto Arjun to force him for a close combat….. So the bottomline is that THERE WAS NO WAY BHIMA COULD HAVE DEFEATED ARJUN in a full fledged battle…..
    Hence it is clear that there was no warrior during MB times who could have defeated Arjun EVER……

    SO SACHIN IN BHIMA VS KARNA BATTLE DAY 14 IT KARNA WHO SPARED BHIMA AND YOU HAD LOST THAT DEBATE AND THAT’S THE REASON YOU RAN AWAY TO ARJUNA SO STOP PLAYING THESE DIRTY GAMES

  2. @ Niraj,

    Your statement-“Its not my claim fact he got up on his chariot is proof that he was not helpless and was more than capable to fight further and fight well enough to knock the living daylights out of Arjuna. Dude its mentioned in MB.”

    My ans- So if you accept that Karna was not helpless, then Arjun did no wrong thing to attack such capable(not helpless) Karna…. Otherwise what do you you expect from Arjun ? To keep getting hit by Karna’s arrows & silently watch the up & down jumping of Karna from his car ????? thanks for proving my point…..

    Your statement-“Dhirtharasthra was blind not deaf. If sanjay can get informers why cant dhritharashtra. What was Sanjays special services needed for ? Clear this doubt of mine first.”

    My ans- An ignorant arguement….. Sanjay used to go to Kurukshetra in intervals & used to collect information from his 100’s of informers & then he used to come back to Hastinapur & recite it to Dhritrashtra in proper sequence….. Otherwise what do you expect… dhritrashtra would personally go to Kurukshetra & collect information from his 100’s of informers or call all 100’s of informers to Hastinapur & listen to them one by one by having 100 seperate meetings ???? Very funny ?? This is just like expecting the PM of India to personally get the reports about “Garbage disposal status” of each area of each city from every Sweeper (jamadar) of those particualr areas…..!! And FYI, we have Environmental minister to report such thing to the PM…..

    Your statement-“Sanjay did not say it was divested of arrows as well. this punctures your dialogue. As now you only have made it clear that weaponry has to get special mention of its being exhausted.”

    My ans- Meaningless arguement…. Sanjay cleary said that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS.. And EQUIPMENTS includes all including normal arrows/celestial arrows/spears etc..… So your worthless arguement of isolating the normal arrows here is rubbish as usual & hence punctured….. I dont need to give anymore explainations about this…..

    Your statement-“If you don’t believe in supernatural then sizzling arrow fired Krishna saved arjuna.”

    My ans- Supernatural point… Hence invalid…..

    Your statement-“My statement-“In first case karna and arjuna were in vicinity and seeing that only arjuna was taken away second incident battle deviated between karna and somakas and bhima was shouting at arjuna just like sunny deol creaming at akshay Khanna.”Sachin ans- Proves nothing…..My ans Of course it does. Arjuna was in ghughuprasad mode hence he battle deviated.

    My ans- Still Proves nothing….

    Your statement-“Sachin ans- “Angry glances” does not mean “having active battle”….. Hence proves nothing…..My ans of course it was not active battle. Arjunas halaat was like the victouriou pehelwaan in the movie dabangg seeing salman khan approaching him only he was defeated.”

    My ans- Proves nothing….

    Your statement-“Well I am not so snake oriented so I don’t really understand your snake example. But one tiger who can stun another tiger. But leapord cant stun tiger so animal kingdom puntures your stupid point.”

    My ans- I didnt know you were so ignorant about the qualities of King Cobra snake which is exclusively found in India & Malaysia only…. FYI, King Cobra snake eats other snakes only…… So king Cobra eats Viper snake(another poisonous snake) as well….. So when Viper sees a King Cobra in front of him, Viper snake(Karna) bows down in front of King cobra(Arjun) as a sign of his weakness & submission in front of King Cobra… [Just like Karna was begging in front of Arjun when Karna saw his death in front of him]….. But still the King Cobra shows no mercy & bites the Viper(Arjun attacks Karna), then Viper also retaliates by biting the King Cobra, but Viper’s venom does not affect King Cobra(Karna attacks Arjun but could not kill him, only make him swoon temporarily)… And in the end Viper dies of Cobra’s venom & then King Cobra eats the viper(Arjun kills Karna) ….. So does it prove that Viper was not Helpless in front of King Cobra just because Viper also bit King Cobra(Karna made Arjun swoon temporarily) ?? Certainly not….. Just like Viper was helpless in front of King Cobra, Similarly, Karna was also helpess in front of Arjun, hence he started begging…..

    Your statement-“Atleast Arjun attacked Karna in a one-on-one fight BUT Karna attacked abhimanyu when he was already busy fighting with other Kurus…..My ans Utter rubbish group attacks were common those days.”

    My ans- So you accepted that Abhimanyu was killed by a joint attack of 6 Kuru Maharathis(including Karna) & Karna attacked abhimanyu when he was already busy fighting with other Kurus… Great … i proved my point…..

    Your statement-“And karna not cheating to kill abhimanyu has already been proven by me to you.”

    My ans- Well you yourself answered your own question by guessing my response…. great going Niraj…. This proves that you yourself know that your claims are rubbish….. Ok… for the record my response- Ha..ha…ha…. when did this happen ?? In your dreams ?? You were already beaten in our previous discussion about this…. and Karna’s cheating to attack abhimanyu when he was already busy fighting with other Kurus, has been proved on umpteen times… & you yourself accepted it above…… So i won again…..

    Your statement-“Arjuna indeed killed a divyastra wielding Karna on his own steam on day 17….My ans Utter lie Sachin he was struggling with his chariot wheel on battle day 17 when killed.”

    My ans- Utter lie again…. Did Karna fire divyastra in this battle ? Ans is YES….. Did Karna kill Arjun in this battle ?? Ans is NO……. Did Arjun kill Karna in this battle ?? Ans is YES…. Hence proved that the divyastra wielding Karna COULD NOT KILL Arjun but Arjuna indeed killed a divyastra wielding Karna on his own steam…..

    And Is there any rule which was laid down by Shrimaan Niraj before the start of MB war that if a warrior(Karna) is not firing a divyastra in the middle of a battle then his opponent(Arjun) MUST NOT kill him at that time….. And the opponent(Arjun) should request that warrior(karna) to please fire a celestial weapon & then only he(Arjun) should kill him at that very moment… otherwise that opponent(Arjun) will face the wrath of the Great arbitrator of MB war- Mr Niraj…… I wonder if Karna had exhausted all of his divyastras, then by Niraj’s RULES, Arjun should have requested Karna to go to his camp & bring some more divyastras, so that arjun can kill Karna when he is firing them….. Because without this scenario, Arjun cannot impress the Great Niraj…!! Ha..ha..ha…. and to further continue this comedy, Karna replies to arjun at that time-“Bhai Arjun, ab ye mere pyaare bhakt Niraj ko kaun samjhaaye ki itne saare divyastras chalaane ke baad bhi mai Arjun ka ya kisi aur Maharhathi ka kuch bhi nahi ukhaad paya, to ab aur kya ukhaad loonga…. Aur Divyastro se to sirf Paidal sainiko ko maara jaa sakta hai….. Haay re mere bhakt Niraj… Kahan fansa diya mujhe ??”……!!

    Your statement-“divysatra with arrows are in any case are superior to only arrows. You never proved that divyastra are inferior to arrows.”

    My ans- Punctured arguement….. The results speak of themselves…. Maharathis who were killed with Normal arrows- Bhishma, Karna, Bhagadatt, Jaydrath, Viraat, Drupad etc etc…. Maharathi skilled with diyastras(Non-WMD)- Zero…..

    Your statement-“Agreed drona did not give up immediately but bhima penetrated that news to psyche. Drona.”

    My ans- Well you are half correct here….. drona did not give up immediately but he gave up only after he was Physically & mentally exhausted by Pandavas…..

    Your statement-“Whenever karna fought with divyastra ie battle 11 or bhargava astra 17 he was undefeated.”

    My ans- Lo kar lo baat….. If Karna was not defeated then who was defeated- Arjun ?? And Karna won the war ??…..Ha..ha..ha…ha … Now dont blame me laughing because your jokes are really hilarious….Ha..ha..ha…ha..

    And your cheap EXCUSES of “Cheating” is rubbish as ever, because there is no such thing called “cheating” in a war & Arjun killed Karna in a fair one-on-one war….. Your plan seem to be repeating the same garbage again again… But it wont change the fact….

    Your statement-“You had made this claim with bhima as well that on battle day 17 karna was firing divysatras and bhima knocked him out many years ago. I am still awaiting those passages.”

    My ans- Read the above passages about what your favourite Karna is saying about you & his duvyastras…!!

    Your statement-“Ghatotkacha and karna were even steven he started attacking the kaurava troops. Karna spared the lives of yudhi bhima nakula sahadeva now if the shamelsess mother of pandavas is standing with a begging bowl in front of karna that proves karna was danveer not incapable of killing maharathi.”

    My ans- Worthless EXCUSES….. It still does not change the fact that Karna COULD NOT kill any Maharathi on his own steam….. And he COULD NOT kill Ghatotkach on his own steam hence he had to resort to his BEST Weapon-Vasavi to kill a 2nd line Pandava warrior……

    Your statement-“Sachin ans- I think you are referring from the “Niraj-Puraan”…. And FYI, apart from Vyas MB, we dont accept any other rubbish referrences, hence kindly get your references right…My ans I was just about to give you the same advice.

    My ans- Well i acted as per your advice only(by talking on the basis of Vyas MB only)…. But you are yet to act on my advice & still talking in air from Niraj-puraan…..

    Your statement-“Karna was not at his best at virata. Best is all cylinders firing all arrows divyastra hence your point is non contextual”

    My ans- Lo aur suno…. Karna firing all of his divyastras(except Vasavi) still COULD NOT kill any Maharathi…. And You mean to say that karna was nothing without his celestial weapons ?? Well, this clearly proves how weak a warrior Karna was …..

    And this is like a Batsman who got out on Zero after playing 30 balls, is now saying that i couldnt score any runs because i didnt use my favourite bat…!! And any average batsman can score a century on his best form day, so just one century doesnt make him a great batsman….. Real warriors do not give EXCUSES but they produce results in every situation… Arjun/Bhima/Abhimanyu/Drona/Bhishma etc produced results even when without using divyastras….. Drona killed Viraat & Drupad with normal arrows, which even Karna COULD NOT DO any Maharathi….. And Karna’s divyastras(except Vasavi) were worthless weapons, hence they were only useful to kill foot soldiers…. Hence Karna producing any results with his divyastras against a Maharathi is non-contextual…….

    Your statement-“Sachin ans- You give this personal opinion of yours twice or 1000 times, still it wont prove anything until & unless you show me passages from VYas Mb which says that “Bhima ran away from a fight with Karna”….. Till then dont talk in air…..My ans. You give this personal opinion one million times but if bhima is shown attacking karna karna fires astra whole battalion is booted away then dude it includes bhima”

    My ans- I am still awaiting for your passages from KMG….. Your Nira-puraan opinion has no place here……

    Your statement-“Karna defeated arjuna twice”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…Ha..ha..ha…ha…

    Your statement-“Sachin you back to your old tricks again. After being defeted by me in karna vs bhima battle day 14 and proving it to you that its karna only who spared bhimna you are babbling the same nonsense again many pages later.”

    My ans- Niraj, you back to your old tricks again. After being defeted by me in karna vs bhima battle day 14 and proving it to you that its bhima who spared karna 1st, hence Karna sparing Bhima later is non-contextual, because Karna was already living a borrowed life….. you are babbling the same nonsense again many pages later…..

    Your statement-“HERE UNARMED KARNA IS REQUESTING. BEFORE ARMED ARJUNA AS AT THAT STAGE KARNA IS UNARMED SIMPLY BECAUSE HE HAS ALIGHTED HIS CHARIOT AND IS ON FOOT. NOT BECAUSE HIS STOCK OF WEAPONS IS EXHAUSTED. LATER HE GOT BACK AND THRASHED ARJUNA”

    My ans- Well as rightly pointed out by Sujal, Karna himself putting his weapons down in front of Arjun is a sign of accepting DEFEAT (Hathiyaar dalna)…… so this proves that it was Karna’s plan to first accept defeat & then convince Arjun to stop the fight(by begging him) & not to kill the defeated Karna…. Had Arjun accepted the mercy plea of Karna, then Karna would have took his own time to take his wheel out or he could have called for fresh chariot/back up support staff etc & then he would have again challenged Arjun for a 2nd round (Just like he did on multiple times on day 14 against Bhima)…… But Krishna sensed that & being a smart & cunning person, Krishna knew that accepting Karna’s plea would only prolong the duration of MB war, hence he provoked Arjun to kill Karna then & there only….. Further Karna had the option to fight from ground, so this proves that instead of continuing the fight from Ground, Karna chose the option of accepting defeat in this round(by putting down his weapons) & saving his life at this time & to come back later…… And Karna’s life saving DRAMA is further exposed by the fact that the same car wheel was extracted by Shalya later with the help of his horses only, which the heavily built Karna COULD NOT…… this proves that Karna was only pretending to take his wheel out, so as to gain mercy from Arjun……

  3. Dear Sujaal. Point was not to deman arjuna. It was to prove karna was not unarmed as Sachin is claiming. Yes arjuna was making good progress you are absolutely right. Krishna also wanted other fighters to tire karna below is the passage. “ Then Keshava proceeded, desirous of beholding Yudhishthira, thinking that Karna meanwhile, O monarch, would be overwhelmed with fatigue” So tiring karna was agenda in the pandava camp as well.

  4. Well guys your fight is never ending.

    Niraj the fact is you are debating on a sticky wicket. Krishna was constantly urging Arjuna to fire higher weapons the reason is clear Arjuna was restraining use of higher weapons and Krishna knew that.

    And what happened after that ?? Seeing Rudra weapon itself Karna stopped fighting and got engaged with his wheel pleading not to kill him as it was not right according to Karna to kill someone whoes wheel is stuck. He could have straight away fought from ground, Arjuna did that

    Now again why was Karna giving angry glances ?? why did he not challenge Arjuna if he had upper hand because of Bharagava. The passages are clear Arjuna first went to Bhima before going to check Yudi Karna had all the time to challenge him why did he not ?? The answer for this is simple Karna wanted other warriors to fight Arjuna and make him tired before his combat with him and at that time Arjuna had just vanquished Ashwathama and he was no where engaged in battle or challenged by Karna.

    Krishna could not convince Karna nor could Kunti because

    अज्ञाम्पसुखम् आराध्य: सुखतरम् आराध्यते विशेषज्ञाम्प:|
    ज्ञाम्पानलवदुर्विदग्धं ब्रह्मा अपि नरं न रंजयति ||

    It’s very easy to convince an uneducated person. It’s even more easy to convince a person who has complete knowledge. But a person who develops a false pride on basis of half-knowledge gained by deceit, cannot be convinced even by God.

  5. Sachin further more before karnas chariot wheel sunk karna was not helpless as you are claiming below is proof
    Then Krishna, beholding Arjuna afflicted with the weapons of Karna, said these words unto Partha: “Approaching Karna, strike him with superior weapons.” Then Dhananjaya, filled with rage, inspiring with mantras another celestial weapons that looked like fire and that resembled the poison of the snake and that was as hard as the essence of adamant, and uniting the Raudra weapon with it, became desirous of shooting it at his foe.
    SO HERE KARNA WAS AFFLICTING ARJUNA AND KRISHNA WAS URGING HIM TO STRIKE WITH HIGHER WEAPONS

    At that time, O king, the earth swallowed up one of wheels of Karna’s car. Quickly alighting then from his vehicle,
    KARNA HAS ALIGHTED FROM HIS VEHICLE AND HENCE IN THIS POSTION HE IS UNARMED.

    he seized his sunken wheel with his two arms and endeavoured to lift it up with a great effort. Drawn up with force by Karna, the earth, which had swallowed up his wheel, rose up to a height of four fingers’ breadth, with her seven islands and her hills and waters and forests. Seeing his wheel swallowed, the son of Radha shed tears from wrath, and beholding Arjuna, filled with rage he said these words, “O Partha, O Partha, wait for a moment, that is, till I lift this sunken wheel. HERE UNARMED KARNA IS REQUESTING. BEFORE ARMED ARJUNA AS AT THAT STAGE KARNA IS UNARMED SIMPLY BECAUSE HE HAS ALIGHTED HIS CHARIOT AND IS ON FOOT. NOT BECAUSE HIS STOCK OF WEAPONS IS EXHAUSTED. LATER HE GOT BACK AND THRASHED ARJUNA

  6. Sachin you back to your old tricks again. After being defeted by me in karna vs bhima battle day 14 and proving it to you that its karna only who spared bhimna you are babbling the same nonsense again many pages later.

  7. Sachin
    Your statement-“It proves karna had knocked out arjuna and was certainly not helpless as you are claiming.”
    Sachin ans- Very funny….. Niraj, first you decide whether you want to say Karna was helpless or Not….. Now, as you claimed that Karna was not helpless, then it proves that Karna was fully capable to fight further…. And Arjun killed a fully capable(not helpless) Karna….. Right Niraj ?? Now, dont take a U-turn again & claim that Karna was helpless because his wheel stuck…. Otherwise you yourself will make a mockery of your own claim here…..
    My ans Its not my claim fact he got up on his chariot is proof that he was not helpless and was more than capable to fight further and fight well enough to knock the living daylights out of Arjuna. Dude its mentioned in MB.

    Sachin ans- Worthless arguement….. A war of words wont change the facts…. And as already emphasised by you- Action speaks louder than words…. And Karna’s action of BEGGING to Arjun clearly proves my point that Karna was in vulnerable & helpless position…..

    My ans Sorry pal the eternal fact that he jumped on his chariot and knocked out arjuna is
    a real juggernaut for you to crack. Yes words were begging action was knocking out arjuna. Since actions speak louder than words. Karna was not helpless end of debate.

    My statement-“AS EVEN IF I AGREE WITH ANAND THAT ORDINARY INJURY IS MADE SWOONING STILL UNARMED WARRIOR CANT MAKE INJURY ON ARMED WARRIOR.”
    My ans- Well… your personal opinion does not change the fact…. An Unarmed bhima jumped on to the car of Karna & made his hide like a mouse to save his life…. And had Arjun’s vow not come in the way of Bhima then an UNARMED BHIMA would have churned an ARMED Karna then & there only…..

    My ans No dude no such thing is mentioned that bhima could have churned karna.
    Karna was not unarmed when he knocked out arjuna. Armed and unamred warrior debate a separate issue. Your bhima sparing karna debate already has been punctured by me. And in any case bhima karna interaction is irrelevant here.

    My statement-“IN ANY CASE SINCE YOU DON’T BELEVIE IN THE SUPERNATURAL THEN YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS BLEVIING SANJAY AS HE SAW THIS BATTLE BY DIVYA DRISHTI AND SHALYA SAW IT WITH HIS OWN EYES”
    Sachin ans- Who gave you an authority what should i believe & what not ?? I believe Sanjay got all these information from his 100’s of informers & i believe his description until & unless it does not involve any supernatural description….. And there was nothing supernatural in him saying that Karna’s car was divested of equipments…..

    My ans. Dhirtharasthra was blind not deaf. If sanjay can get informers why cant dhritharashtra. What was Sanjays special services needed for ? Clear this doubt of mine first.

    Sachin ans- Superficial arguement….. Sanjay did not say that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF Celestial EQUIPMENTS… but he said that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS.. which includes the normal arrows as well….. and my point was that Karna’s stock of celestial & normal arrow was almost exhausted, as he had no back up stock of arrows in his car… he only had few arrows left in his quiver with which he was fighting with Arjun….

    My ans Sanjay did not say it was divested of arrows as well. this punctures your dialogue. As now you only have made it clear that weaponry has to get special mention of its being exhausted. Sanjay did not says arrows exhausted and when karna picked up that arrow its not mentioned it was the last of his arrows any where and celestial equipment was with karna hence he had both arrows and celestial weapons. Thanks for this above point.

    Sachin ans- Well atleast you accepted that arjun had all the capabilities to disarm Karna on his own steam… So after this dont blabber the same hypothetical statement that Arjun could never have killed an armed Karna on his own steam…..
    My ans a temporary disarm for a few seconds isn’t equivalent to killing.

    Sachin ans- Supernatural claim, hence invalid….. and talking supernaturally, Ashwasen helped Karna & Krishna helped Arjun… but end result : Arjun killed Karna….

    My ans – Who gave you an authority what should i debate or on what should I not.

    If you don’t believe in supernatural then sizzling arrow fired Krishna saved arjuna. If you believe in supernatural then its ashwasena who needed karnas help not vice versa. Going purely by mb ashwasena on karnas arrows arjuna ghughuprasad. Ashwasena without karnas arrow slashed to pieces. End result arjuna cheated to kill karna

    My statement-“In first case karna and arjuna were in vicinity and seeing that only arjuna was taken away second incident battle deviated between karna and somakas and bhima was shouting at arjuna just like sunny deol creaming at akshay Khanna.”
    Sachin ans- Proves nothing…..

    My ans Of course it does. Arjuna was in ghughuprasad mode hence he battle deviated.

    Sachin ans- “Angry glances” does not mean “having active battle”….. Hence proves nothing…..
    My ans of course it was not active battle. Arjunas halaat was like the victouriou pehelwaan in the movie dabangg seeing salman khan approaching him only he was defeated.

    Sachin ans- Even a Viper snake(Karna) bows down in front of King cobra(Arjun) as a sign of his weakness & submission in front of King Cobra… but when King Cobra bites & grabs him with his fangs, then Viper retaliates by making a futile attempt of biting the King Cobra, but Viper’s venom does not affect King Cobra… And in the end Viper dies of Cobra’s venom & then King Cobra swallows the viper ….. So does it prove that Viper was not Helpless in front of King Cobra just because Viper also bit King Cobra ?? Certainly not….. Similarly, Karna could only make Arjun swoon for few seconds before himself dying…..
    M yans Well I am not so snake oriented so I don’t really understand your snake example. But one tiger who can stun another tiger. But leapord cant stun tiger so animal kingdom puntures your stupid point.

    My statement-“Yes arjuna was superior to karna in attacking unamred warrior warriors engaged with others hidning behind chakkas. Karna is nowhere near arjuna in this department.”
    Sachin ans- False claim again….. No one can overtake Karna when it comes to cowardness or cowardly attacks….. Atleast Arjun attacked Karna in a one-on-one fight BUT Karna attacked abhimanyu when he was already busy fighting with other Kurus…..

    My ans Utter rubbish group attacks were common those days. And karna not cheating to kill abhimany has already been proven by me to you. And I am praying to God you will come up with answer as follows ha ha ha no such thing happened.

    Sachin ans- Utter lie from Niraj-Puraan….. Hence punctured….. And Arjuna indeed killed a divyastra wielding Karna on his own steam on day 17….
    My ans Utter lie Sachin he was struggling with his chariot wheel on battle day 17 when killed.

    Sachin futher quores
    And as already proved, Divyastras were inferior to Normal arrow in terms of killing Maharathis….. So a “divyastra wielding maharathi” was only good enough to kill some foot soldiers…..
    My ans but divysatra with arrows are in any case are superior to only arrows. You never proved that divyastra are inferior to arrows. Yes you did come up with a rubbish logic of europeon armour theory but that was punctured by me. Now I know you will claim no such thing happened.

    Ssachin ans- Utter rubbish….. It is a fact that Drona SURRENDERED in front of Pandavas(hence defeated)….. Drona did not immediatley surrendered after hearing Yudhi’s lie ….. But he surrendered only when he became helpless & exhausted & unable to coup up with pandavas & saw his death in front of him……
    My ans Agreed drona did not give up immediately but bhima penetrated that news to psyche. Drona.

    Sachin ans- Total lie….. Arjuna indeed killed & defeated divyastra wielding karna multiple times….

    My ans No dude. Whenever karna fought with divyastra ie battle 11 or bhargava astra 17 he was undefeated. Final battle arjuna had to cheat to kill him. Your plan seem to be repeating the same garbage again again to tire me out so that after ward when I don’t answer. Niraj lost this debate ha ha ha ha. You had made this claim with bhima as well that on battle day 17 karna was firing divysatras and bhima knocked him out many years ago. I am still awaiting those passages.

    Your statement-“Abhimanyu was killed by dushasana so does your logic say dushasanas sons was superior to karna?”

    Sachin ans : Had Karna killed even one single Maharathi on his own steam (without using Vasavi), then i would have never raised questions about his warrior capabilities….. Killing Arjun was way out of his capabilties….. That is why he heavily depended on Vasavi…. Had he not possessed Vasavi then even Ghatotkach would churned Karna on day 14…..

    My ans Rubbish Ghatotkacha and karna were even steven he started attacking the kaurava troops. Karna spared the lives of yudhi bhima nakula sahadeva now if the shamelsess mother of pandavas is standing with a begging bowl in front of karna that proves karna was danveer not incapable of killing maharathi.

    Sachin ans- I think you are referring from the “Niraj-Puraan”…. And FYI, apart from Vyas MB, we dont accept any other rubbish referrences, hence kindly get your references right…
    My ans I was just about to give you the same advice.

    My statement-“when karna was firing divysatra arjuna was either equal or inferior to karna.”
    Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha…ha… Already punctured…..
    My ans or rather question and when did that happen ?

    Sachin ans- Nope…. Karna at his best could only make Arjun swoon for few seconds…. But Arjun at his best alone thrashed Karna(who had support of whole Kuru army at Viraat) & killed Karna by sending his head for a ride….
    Your statement-“it’s the truth dude. Karna was approaching his angry glances were noted by arjuna”
    My ans Karna was not at his best at virata. Best is all cylinders firing all arrows divyastra hence your point is non contextual

    Sachin ans- “angry glances”….. Ha..ha..ha…ha… Karna ankhiyon se goli maare…. Ha..ha..ha…ha… Already punctured…..

    My ans Illogical statement followed by giggling does not nullify facts.

    Sachin ans- You give this personal opinion of yours twice or 1000 times, still it wont prove anything until & unless you show me passages from VYas Mb which says that “Bhima ran away from a fight with Karna”….. Till then dont talk in air…..
    My ans. You give this personal opinion one million times but if bhima is shown attacking karna karna fires astra whole battalion is booted away then dude it includes bhima

    My statement-“It also separates Pritthviraj Chauhan frm Mohamme Ghuri.”
    Sachin ans- Non-contextual comparison….. Pritthviraj Chauhan had defeated Mohamme Ghuri on prior multiple occassions & then he did the supidity of sparing his life…. But Mohamme Ghuri defeated Pritthviraj Chauhan in a fair war but he did not do the supidity of sparing his life…… BUT Karna could never ever defeat Arjun even once…..
    My ans Chauhan had defeate Ghori only once not many times. Karna defeated arjuna twice and had arjuna at his mercy when he made arjuna swoon and did not attack the swooned arjuna.

  8. @ Niraj,

    Your statement-“It proves karna had knocked out arjuna and was certainly not helpless as you are claiming.”

    My ans- Very funny….. Niraj, first you decide whether you want to say Karna was helpless or Not….. Now, as you claimed that Karna was not helpless, then it proves that Karna was fully capable to fight further…. And Arjun killed a fully capable(not helpless) Karna….. Right Niraj ?? Now, dont take a U-turn again & claim that Karna was helpless because his wheel stuck…. Otherwise you yourself will make a mockery of your own claim here…..

    Your statement-“I CAN ALSO SAY CAR DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS DOES NOT MEAN ALL ITS EQUIPMENTS AS PROVEN THAT ARROWS WERE STILL THERE.”

    My ans- Worthless arguement….. A war of words wont change the facts…. And as already emphasised by you- Action speaks louder than words…. And Karna’s action of BEGGING to Arjun clearly proves my point that Karna was in vulnerable & helpless position…..

    Your statement-“AS EVEN IF I AGREE WITH ANAND THAT ORDINARY INJURY IS MADE SWOONING STILL UNARMED WARRIOR CANT MAKE INJURY ON ARMED WARRIOR.”

    My ans- Well… your personal opinion does not change the fact…. An Unarmed bhima jumped on to the car of Karna & made his hide like a mouse to save his life…. And had Arjun’s vow not come in the way of Bhima then an UNARMED BHIMA would have churned an ARMED Karna then & there only…..

    Your statement-“IN ANY CASE SINCE YOU DON’T BELEVIE IN THE SUPERNATURAL THEN YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS BLEVIING SANJAY AS HE SAW THIS BATTLE BY DIVYA DRISHTI AND SHALYA SAW IT WITH HIS OWN EYES”

    My ans- Who gave you an authority what should i believe & what not ?? I believe Sanjay got all these information from his 100’s of informers & i believe his description until & unless it does not involve any supernatural description….. And there was nothing supernatural in him saying that Karna’s car was divested of equipments…..

    Your statement-“Firstly you believe that ordinary arrows are more powerful than divyastras. So from your pov divysatras not being there in karnas chariot is non contextual as they are useless.”

    My ans- Superficial arguement….. Sanjay did not say that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF Celestial EQUIPMENTS… but he said that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS.. which includes the normal arrows as well….. and my point was that Karna’s stock of celestial & normal arrow was almost exhausted, as he had no back up stock of arrows in his car… he only had few arrows left in his quiver with which he was fighting with Arjun…. This clearly proves the helpless condition of Karna…. and the credit goes to Arjun only because he made all of Karna’s support staff run away or killed them, hence Karna had no back up car which carried his back up arsenal…. and his own car’s arsenal was also exhausted at the end part of the battle….. This is the reason, Karna was begging to Arjun because Karna now knew that he has no chance to survive… Now pretending to take his wheel out may be a intentional drama by Karna, so that Arjun shows mercy on him & stops the battle & spares Karna….. Because Shalya pulled the same car wheel later with the help of his horses only…..!!

    Your statement-“Sachin ans- Baseless comparison…. Hence invalid…… Further this clearly proves that arjun had all the capabilities to disarm Karna on his own steam……My ans only temporarily. In a jiffy as soon as one conversation karna was back on his feat.”

    My ans- Well atleast you accepted that arjun had all the capabilities to disarm Karna on his own steam… So after this dont blabber the same hypothetical statement that Arjun could never have killed an armed Karna on his own steam…..

    Your statement-“after that karna fired naga weapon and krishna saved arjuna.”

    My ans- Supernatural claim, hence invalid….. and talking supernaturally, Ashwasen helped Karna & Krishna helped Arjun… but end result : Arjun killed Karna….

    Your statement-“In first case karna and arjuna were in vicinity and seeing that only arjuna was taken away second incident battle deviated between karna and somakas and bhima was shouting at arjuna just like sunny deol creaming at akshay Khanna.”

    My ans- Proves nothing…..

    Your statement-“It’s the truth karna and arjuna were face to face karnas angry glances were seen by arjuna.”

    My ans- “Angry glances” does not mean “having active battle”….. Hence proves nothing…..

    Your statement-“Helpless warriors and cowards don’t come out of their vulnerable postion and knock out there opponents”

    My ans- Even a Viper snake(Karna) bows down in front of King cobra(Arjun) as a sign of his weakness & submission in front of King Cobra… but when King Cobra bites & grabs him with his fangs, then Viper retaliates by making a futile attempt of biting the King Cobra, but Viper’s venom does not affect King Cobra… And in the end Viper dies of Cobra’s venom & then King Cobra swallows the viper ….. So does it prove that Viper was not Helpless in front of King Cobra just because Viper also bit King Cobra ?? Certainly not….. Similarly, Karna could only make Arjun swoon for few seconds before himself dying…..

    Your statement-“Yes arjuna was superior to karna in attacking unamred warrior warriors engaged with others hidning behind chakkas. Karna is nowhere near arjuna in this department.”

    My ans- False claim again….. No one can overtake Karna when it comes to cowardness or cowardly attacks….. Atleast Arjun attacked Karna in a one-on-one fight BUT Karna attacked abhimanyu when he was already busy fighting with other Kurus…..

    Your statement-“Arjuna never had the capalbilities to kill a divyastra wielding maharathi on his own steam leave alone the great Karna”

    My ans- Utter lie from Niraj-Puraan….. Hence punctured….. And Arjuna indeed killed a divyastra wielding Karna on his own steam on day 17….

    And as already proved, Divyastras were inferior to Normal arrow in terms of killing Maharathis….. So a “divyastra wielding maharathi” was only good enough to kill some foot soldiers…..

    Your statement-“Utter rubbish no such thing happened. Yudhis lie did the trick.”

    My ans- Utter rubbish….. It is a fact that Drona SURRENDERED in front of Pandavas(hence defeated)….. Drona did not immediatley surrendered after hearing Yudhi’s lie ….. But he surrendered only when he became helpless & exhausted & unable to coup up with pandavas & saw his death in front of him……

    Your statement-“Karna did not kill drishtadyumna satyaki etc hence could not kill them. Arjuna did not kill or defeat divyastra wielding karna then arjuna also kill or defeat divyastra wielding Karna.”

    My ans- Total lie….. Arjuna indeed killed & defeated divyastra wielding karna multiple times….

    Your statement-“Abhimanyu was killed by dushasana so does your logic say dushasanas sons was superior to karna?”

    My ans- Abhimanyu was killed by a joint effort…. 6 Kuru Maharahti first made abhimanyu weaponless & exhausted & then Dusshashan’s son did the finishing job…. Hence Dusshashan’s son cannot claim the victory alone & it does not make him any superior…..

    Had Karna killed even one single Maharathi on his own steam (without using Vasavi), then i would have never raised questions about his warrior capabilities….. Killing Arjun was way out of his capabilties….. That is why he heavily depended on Vasavi…. Had he not possessed Vasavi then even Ghatotkach would churned Karna on day 14…..

    Your statement-“Sachin ans- well if you have not read Vyas MB then its your fault…. But Vyas told me that arjuna defeated karna some 7 times…..My ans No it does not say any such thing like that.”

    My ans- I think you are referring from the “Niraj-Puraan”…. And FYI, apart from Vyas MB, we dont accept any other rubbish referrences, hence kindly get your references right…..

    Your statement-“when karna was firing divysatra arjuna was either equal or inferior to karna.”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha…ha… Already punctured…..

    Your statement-“Both karna and arjuna their best arjuna swooned that’s the point.”

    My ans- Nope…. Karna at his best could only make Arjun swoon for few seconds…. But Arjun at his best alone thrashed Karna(who had support of whole Kuru army at Viraat) & killed Karna by sending his head for a ride….

    Your statement-“it’s the truth dude. Karna was approaching his angry glances were noted by arjuna”

    My ans- “angry glances”….. Ha..ha..ha…ha… Karna ankhiyon se goli maare…. Ha..ha..ha…ha… Already punctured…..

    Your statement-“bhima was shown attacking Karna whole battalion was burnt away kicked away or whatever when karna fired the brahmastra. Unless bhima went for bathroom break or go back to his tent to wash utensils for draupadi after she was having a kitty party with her friends this statement of bhima getting thrashed away stands.”

    My ans- You give this personal opinion of yours twice or 1000 times, still it wont prove anything until & unless you show me passages from VYas Mb which says that “Bhima ran away from a fight with Karna”….. Till then dont talk in air…..

    Your statement-“It also separates Pritthviraj Chauhan frm Mohamme Ghuri.”

    My ans- Non-contextual comparison….. Pritthviraj Chauhan had defeated Mohamme Ghuri on prior multiple occassions & then he did the supidity of sparing his life…. But Mohamme Ghuri defeated Pritthviraj Chauhan in a fair war but he did not do the supidity of sparing his life…… BUT Karna could never ever defeat Arjun even once…..

  9. Sachin.
    My statement-“Ok fine the victorious Arjuna was knocked down senseless.”
    Sachin ans- Proves nothing…..
    My ans – It proves karna had knocked out arjuna and was certainly not helpless as you are claiming.
    My statement-“YOU HAVE BEEN PREACHING YOURSELF HOARSE THAT SEE WHAT ACUTALLY HAPPENDED AND DON’T BELIEVE IN WHO SAID TO WHOMS SO YOUR ABOVE QUOTE STANDS PUNCTURED. AND EVEN THEN THE STATEMENT IS NOT CAR DIVESTED OF ALL ITS EQUIPMENTS. YES SOME EQUIPMENTS MAY BE DIVESTED. AND THE STAMENT all of Karna’s high weapons were exhausted I HAVE PUNCTURED ABOVE.”
    Sachin ans- Well false arguement….. The sentence “CAR DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS” does not mean “CAR was DIVESTED OF half EQUIPMENTS”…. Otherwise the author would never have mentioned such thing…..
    My ans Author has mentioned many things. And its not author its sanjay who said it as below.
    Sanjaya said, ‘Beholding the troops crushed with arrows in that encounter between Karna and Arjuna, Shalya proceeded, filled with wrath, on that car divested of equipment
    Since who said to whom is your latest mantra lets see below statement. Shalya said
    The ruler of the Madras, with stupefied heart, quickly proceeding, O king, to the side of Duryodhana, on THAT CAR DIVESTED OF STANDARD said in sorrow these words, “THE ELEPHANTS, THE STEEDS, and the foremost of car-warriors of thy army have been slain. In consequence of those mighty warriors, and steeds, and elephants huge as hills, having been slain after coming into contact with one another, thy host looks like the domains of Yama. Never before, O Bharata, has a battle been fought like that between Karna and Arjuna today. Karna had powerfully assailed the two Krishnas today and all others who are thy foes. Destiny, however, has certainly flowed, controlled by Partha. It is for this that Destiny is protecting the Pandavas and weakening us.
    HERE SHALYA MAKES IT CLEAR ITS STANDARD STEED ETC WHICH WAS DIVESTED NOT WEAPONS AND KARNA FIRING AN ARROW AT ARJUNA IS ALSO PROOF THAT HE WAS NOT RENDERED UNARMED AS YOU ARE BOASTING. SHALYAS CONVERSTAION IS TALLYING WITH THE EVENT.
    I CAN ALSO SAY CAR DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS DOES NOT MEAN ALL ITS EQUIPMENTS AS PROVEN THAT ARROWS WERE STILL THERE.
    AS EVEN IF I AGREE WITH ANAND THAT ORDINARY INJURY IS MADE SWOONING STILL UNARMED WARRIOR CANT MAKE INJURY ON ARMED WARRIOR.
    IN ANY CASE SINCE YOU DON’T BELEVIE IN THE SUPERNATURAL THEN YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS BLEVIING SANJAY AS HE SAW THIS BATTLE BY DIVYA DRISHTI AND SHALYA SAW IT WITH HIS OWN EYES
    Sachin says
    Further since now you are following my lead to give more emphasis on what actually happened then what is written….. then this itself proves my point…. KARNA BEGGED IN FRONT OF ARJUN TO NOT TO KILL HIM…. This is what actually happened…. And this clearly proves that Karna was in helpless & poor situation….. Further, Karna DID NOT fire any divyastra after he fired a arrow which made Arjun swoon…. this further testifies the fact that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS….. Hence i proved my point….
    My ans Nothing has been proven. Firstly you believe that ordinary arrows are more powerful than divyastras. So from your pov divysatras not being there in karnas chariot is non contextual as they are useless. From my pov which incidentally tallies with mb divysatras can be invoked otherwise as well. ie ashwatthama firing brahma weapon from grass blade. Hence from both our povs car divested of equipment hence no divyastras goes for a six. And arrows were certainly there so equipment clearly does not mean weapons. Otherwise the author would have said divested of all weapons.
    My statement-“Further, Arjun had made Karna swoon & give up his bow/quiver in the middle of fight, means karna was in vulnerable position……My ans This was seen about arjuna also. Karna swoon was so temporary he was up in a conversation. Aruna took more time to recover.”
    Sachin ans- Baseless comparison…. Hence invalid…… Further this clearly proves that arjun had all the capabilities to disarm Karna on his own steam……
    My ans only temporarily. In a jiffy as soon as one conversation karna was back on his feat.

    Sachin ans- Lo aur suno…… I gave the passages of Vyas MB which clearly shows that Karna was having tough times against Arjun & Niraj is saying that Vyas is LYING….!! … What a hippocrat…. you yourself makes a mockery of the facts of sacred texts of Vyas MB & you are blaming me….!! Funny…..
    My ans after that karna fired naga weapon and krishna saved arjuna. It’s a fact from MB and stop using insulting words please . Perhaps you have read Mr. Dhruvs warning to both of us as a warning to me only ( just the same way you read mb )

    Sachin ans “Firstly Arjun NEVER backed off from Karna’s 2nd Bhargavastra, because the battle was still continuing…. Secondly, Arjun was NOT having an active battle with Karna during his 1st Bhargavastra, so no question of backing-off or defeat…… You have failed to prove any of your claims….. so stop beating your punctured Dhol, because it wont change the facts & it will only waste your time here…..My ans My opinion about you is remarkably similar. He didn’t back off but he was rendered stunned.”
    My ans In first case karna and arjuna were in vicinity and seeing that only arjuna was taken away second incident battle deviated between karna and somakas and bhima was shouting at arjuna just like sunny deol creaming at akshay Khanna.
    Sachin ans- So you accepted that Arjun did not back off… Great… I won the arguement…. And “getting stunned” proves nothing…..
    My ans You have never won any argument against me.
    My statement-“Part one before active battle only he was taken away from battle field. But they were face to face.”
    Sachin ans- Utter lie…… Arjun & Karna were not having an active battle….. And your HAWA-MAHAL meaningless arguement proves nothing…..
    My ans It’s the truth karna and arjuna were face to face karnas angry glances were seen by arjuna.

    My statement-“One warrior request his opponent request denied fights back and knocks out opponent. Opponent gets up and kill unarmed opponent. Sachin IMHO its arjuna who is the coward of the first order not Karna.”
    Sachin ans- Nope…. This was a war, not a circus…. Would Indian army REQUEST Pak army in the middle of battle to hold their fire for some time so that they can repair the puncture of their Vehicles..?? Pak army would die of laughing about this REQUEST…. Ha..ha..ha…And a capable(not helpless) warrior would never beg(or request) to his opponent to not to kill him….. Only a helpless & vulnerable or Coward warrior would do so ….. & Karna was in such situation…..
    My ans Helpless warriors and cowards don’t come out of their vulnerable postion and knock out there opponents but yes cowards do attack unarmed warrior.
    Sachin ans- So what ?? Firing Brahmastra or making arjun swoon was a Big deal ?? After this Arjun KNOCKED DOWN Karna permananently by sending his head for a ride seperatly….. this is big deal which Karna could never do to any Maharathi on his own steam… leave alone doing it to Arjun…..
    My ans Arjuna knocked out unarmed Karna. Yes arjuna was superior to karna in attacking unamred warrior warriors engaged with others hidning behind chakkas. Karna is nowhere near arjuna in this department.
    Sachin ans- Huh… As said above… Karna hadnt had the capabilites to kill any damn Maharathi on his own steam… leave alone killing the great Arjun…..
    My ans Arjuna never had the capalbilities to kill a divyastra wielding maharathi on his own steam leave alone the great Karna
    Sachin ans- Ignorant claim…… It was group battle between Pandava & Kurus, in which Pandavas made Drona helpless, as all of his support staff ran away & further Drona couldnt coup up with the mental pressure put by Pandavas on him…. Hence he SURRENDERED in front of Pandavas… means Drona was already defeated by Pandavas….. Dristhdyumna only did the final moping job of removing Drona permanently from the battlefield…..
    My ans Utter rubbish no such thing happened. Yudhis lie did the trick.

    Your statement-“He didn’t kill yudhi bhima nakula and sahadeva because of kuntis vow.”
    Sachin ans- Cheap EXCUSE….. Had Karna promised the mothers of Drishtdyumna/Satyaki/Shikhandi/Abhimanyu etc as well ?????
    My ans Ok fine lets have it your way then. Karna did not kill drishtadyumna satyaki etc hence could not kill them. Arjuna did not kill or defeat divyastra wielding karna then arjuna also kill or defeat divyastra wielding Karna. Abhimanyu was killed by dushasana so does your logic say dushasanas sons was superior to karna?

    My statement-“7 times arjuna defeated karna and when was that ?”
    Sachin ans- well if you have not read Vyas MB then its your fault…. But Vyas told me that arjuna defeated karna some 7 times…..
    My ans No it does not say any such thing like that.
    My statement-“And when firing celestial weapons arjuna could not beat karna.”
    Sachin ans- Utter lie….. when firing celestial weapons arjuna defeated karna in Viraat, MB war on multiple times…. And when firing celestial weapons arjuna killed karna…..
    My ans utter rubbish when karna was firing divysatra arjuna was either equal or inferior to karna.
    Sachin ans- So what ?? does it prove Karna making Arjun swoon as a BIG ACHIEVEMENT of Karna ?? Offcourse yes… Because Karna could not achieve anything else all thoughout his life….. He at his best could only make Arjun swoon for few seconds….
    My ans. Both karna and arjuna their best arjuna swooned that’s the point.
    My statement-“karna vs arjuna karna was approaching arjuna like the abhishek bachcan example and before only arjuna was gughu Prasad”
    Sachin ans- Utter lie… Hence invalid…..
    My ans it’s the truth dude. Karna was approaching his angry glances were noted by arjuna
    My prediction sachins answer no such thing happened. ( the eternal wild goose chase trick we are all familiar with ) Then in my next post I will have to show the passages.

    My statement-“karna thrashing yudhi does not make bhima defeat. But bhima and others attack karna karna fires brahmastra and burns the whole battalion away including bhima is defeat for bhima.”
    Sachin ans- Utter lie again… You failed to prove this… hence Dont talk in air….
    My ans bhima was shown attacking Karna whole battalion was burnt away kicked away or whatever when karna fired the brahmastra. Unless bhima went for bathroom break or go back to his tent to wash utensils for draupadi after she was having a kitty party with her friends this statement of bhima getting thrashed away stands.

    My statement-“Yes a sly warrior like arjuna always does that. That’s how mohommad ghuri also defeted prithiviraj Chauhan.”
    Sachin ans- Well, this is what separates Great batsman(Arjun) from an average batsman(Karna)… and this is what separates Great warrior(Arjun) from an average coward warrior(Karna)…..
    My ans It also separates Pritthviraj Chauhan frm Mohamme Ghuri. It also separates the cheat England team from Australian team in the bodyline series.
    Sri Anandji reading here. Your question is a good one. In the film karishma kudra kaa dharmendra picks up a bail gaadhi with one hand. Now I know this is filmy example but I choose this as by and large its accepted that dharmendra is a macho hero ie macho in reel life and in real life as well unlike amitabh bachchan who was hospitalized with one punch. I also know Karna to be a strong man. But how strong was karna and how heavy were chariots those day is again only an assumption.

  10. The author describes every minor injury as “swooning”. Karna could give only a minor injury to Arjuna. But he thought that he had seriously injured Arjuna. The time gap between the injury to Arjuna and the killing of Karna was so less that Karna couldn’t pull out his wheel from ground. How much
    time a strong man like Karna needed to pull out the wheel ? A seriously injured warrior can not retaliate the way Arjuna retaliated at that time. He killed Karna with a single shot.

  11. @ Niraj,

    Your statement-“Ok fine the victorious Arjuna was knocked down senseless.”

    My ans- Proves nothing…..

    Your statement-“YOU HAVE BEEN PREACHING YOURSELF HOARSE THAT SEE WHAT ACUTALLY HAPPENDED AND DON’T BELIEVE IN WHO SAID TO WHOMS SO YOUR ABOVE QUOTE STANDS PUNCTURED. AND EVEN THEN THE STATEMENT IS NOT CAR DIVESTED OF ALL ITS EQUIPMENTS. YES SOME EQUIPMENTS MAY BE DIVESTED. AND THE STAMENT all of Karna’s high weapons were exhausted I HAVE PUNCTURED ABOVE.”

    My ans- Well false arguement….. The sentence “CAR DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS” does not mean “CAR was DIVESTED OF half EQUIPMENTS”…. Otherwise the author would never have mentioned such thing…..

    Further since now you are following my lead to give more emphasis on what actually happened then what is written….. then this itself proves my point…. KARNA BEGGED IN FRONT OF ARJUN TO NOT TO KILL HIM…. This is what actually happened…. And this clearly proves that Karna was in helpless & poor situation….. Further, Karna DID NOT fire any divyastra after he fired a arrow which made Arjun swoon…. this further testifies the fact that Karna’s CAR was DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS….. Hence i proved my point….

    Your statement-“Further, Arjun had made Karna swoon & give up his bow/quiver in the middle of fight, means karna was in vulnerable position……My ans This was seen about arjuna also. Karna swoon was so temporary he was up in a conversation. Aruna took more time to recover.”

    My ans- Baseless comparison…. Hence invalid…… Further this clearly proves that arjun had all the capabilities to disarm Karna on his own steam……

    Your statement-“Below passages prove that the fully armed Karna was weak/vulnerable & could not gain any upperhand over Arjun:“When at last Karna found that he could not prevail over Partha and was exceedingly scorched with the shafts of the former, that hero, his limbs very much mangled, set his heart upon that shaft of his which lay singly within a quiver.”MY ANS A balatant lie I have already proven before his chariot wheel sinking karna was getting better of arjuna. And after that karna fired a sizzling arrow by which arjuna got saved by Krishna . Sachin please don’t do this and loose your self respect. We all have access to sacred texts. You keep coming up with this old trick of yours and sending us on wild goose chases which is futile.”

    My ans- Lo aur suno…… I gave the passages of Vyas MB which clearly shows that Karna was having tough times against Arjun & Niraj is saying that Vyas is LYING….!! … What a hippocrat…. you yourself makes a mockery of the facts of sacred texts of Vyas MB & you are blaming me….!! Funny…..

    Your statement-“Firstly Arjun NEVER backed off from Karna’s 2nd Bhargavastra, because the battle was still continuing…. Secondly, Arjun was NOT having an active battle with Karna during his 1st Bhargavastra, so no question of backing-off or defeat…… You have failed to prove any of your claims….. so stop beating your punctured Dhol, because it wont change the facts & it will only waste your time here…..My ans My opinion about you is remarkably similar. He didn’t back off but he was rendered stunned.”

    My ans- So you accepted that Arjun did not back off… Great… I won the arguement…. And “getting stunned” proves nothing…..

    Your statement-“Part one before active battle only he was taken away from battle field. But they were face to face.”

    My ans- Utter lie…… Arjun & Karna were not having an active battle….. And your HAWA-MAHAL meaningless arguement proves nothing…..

    Your statement-“One warrior request his opponent request denied fights back and knocks out opponent. Opponent gets up and kill unarmed opponent. Sachin IMHO its arjuna who is the coward of the first order not Karna.”

    My ans- Nope…. This was a war, not a circus…. Would Indian army REQUEST Pak army in the middle of battle to hold their fire for some time so that they can repair the puncture of their Vehicles..?? Pak army would die of laughing about this REQUEST…. Ha..ha..ha…

    And a capable(not helpless) warrior would never beg(or request) to his opponent to not to kill him….. Only a helpless & vulnerable or Coward warrior would do so ….. & Karna was in such situation…..

    Your statement-“after that he fired braham astra etc and knocked out arjuna this in itself punctures your claim.”

    My ans- So what ?? Firing Brahmastra or making arjun swoon was a Big deal ?? After this Arjun KNOCKED DOWN Karna permananently by sending his head for a ride seperatly….. this is big deal which Karna could never do to any Maharathi on his own steam… leave alone doing it to Arjun…..

    Your statement-“its karnas fault he didn’t attack the unconscious arjuna and kill him. I agree with above statement.”

    My ans- Huh… As said above… Karna hadnt had the capabilites to kill any damn Maharathi on his own steam… leave alone killing the great Arjun…..

    Your statement-“drona and drishtadyumna also started the battle fully armed. End result drishtadyumna killed drona. Ha ha ha so what ????”

    My ans- Ignorant claim…… It was group battle between Pandava & Kurus, in which Pandavas made Drona helpless, as all of his support staff ran away & further Drona couldnt coup up with the mental pressure put by Pandavas on him…. Hence he SURRENDERED in front of Pandavas… means Drona was already defeated by Pandavas….. Dristhdyumna only did the final moping job of removing Drona permanently from the battlefield…..

    Your statement-“He didn’t kill yudhi bhima nakula and sahadeva because of kuntis vow.”

    My ans- Cheap EXCUSE….. Had Karna promised the mothers of Drishtdyumna/Satyaki/Shikhandi/Abhimanyu etc as well ?????

    Your statement-“7 times arjuna defeated karna and when was that ?”

    My ans- well if you have not read Vyas MB then its your fault…. But Vyas told me that arjuna defeated karna some 7 times…..

    Your statement-“And when firing celestial weapons arjuna could not beat karna.”

    My ans- Utter lie….. when firing celestial weapons arjuna defeated karna in Viraat, MB war on multiple times…. And when firing celestial weapons arjuna killed karna…..

    Your statement-“My statement-“His wheel sanked he was chastizied by Krishna got back on his chariot and knocked out arjuna” Sachin ans- Huh… so what?? Big deal ?? Making Arjun swoon for few seconds was a big deal ????? Offcourse for your karna lovers, it is a big deal, because there no significant achievements of Karna throughout MB which you can show to us….. Even Susherma makes arjun swoon for few seconds on 17th morning….. Karna got knocked out on umpteen times by Arjun/Bhima/Satyaki etc….. My ans I have passages of karna also thrashing bhima and satyaki Arjuna was not swooned for few seconds. It was quite elaborately described.

    My ans- So what ?? does it prove Karna making Arjun swoon as a BIG ACHIEVEMENT of Karna ?? Offcourse yes… Because Karna could not achieve anything else all thoughout his life….. He at his best could only make Arjun swoon for few seconds….

    Your statement-“karna vs arjuna karna was approaching arjuna like the abhishek bachcan example and before only arjuna was gughu Prasad”

    My ans- Utter lie… Hence invalid…..

    Your statement-“karna thrashing yudhi does not make bhima defeat. But bhima and others attack karna karna fires brahmastra and burns the whole battalion away including bhima is defeat for bhima.”

    My ans- Utter lie again… You failed to prove this… hence Dont talk in air….

    Your statement-“Yes a sly warrior like arjuna always does that. That’s how mohommad ghuri also defeted prithiviraj Chauhan.”

    My ans- Well, this is what separates Great batsman(Arjun) from an average batsman(Karna)… and this is what separates Great warrior(Arjun) from an average coward warrior(Karna)…..

  12. Sachin ans- Karna defeated Arjuna….. Ha..ha..ha… Nice Joke from Niraj Puraan…. Now, dont blame me for laughing, kyonki aise arguement pe sirf hasaa jaa sakta hai…!! Ha..ha..ha…
    My ans Ok fine the victorious Arjuna was knocked down senseless. No one blamed Dr. Asthaana for laughing in munna bhai mbbs so you are safe here.
    Sachin ans- Utter lie…. Arjun had indeed made Karna in vulnerable position in the end, because Karna was totally helpless at the end(no support staff & all of Karna’s high weapons were exhausted)…. Chariot wheel sinking is non-contextual here….
    My ans – Helplsess and High weapons exhausted are you sure ? Lets visit karnas final moments
    Displaying also his own prowess, he seemed to get the better of Dhananjaya at that time. Then Krishna, beholding Arjuna afflicted with the weapons of Karna, said these words unto Partha: “Approaching Karna, strike him with superior weapons.” Then Dhananjaya, filled with rage, inspiring with mantras another celestial weapons that looked like fire and that resembled the poison of the snake and that was as hard as the essence of adamant, and uniting the Raudra weapon with it, became desirous of shooting it at his foe.
    Before wheel sinks he was seemed to getting better of dhananjaya.Even Krishna noticed Arjunas halaat. So your karna being helpless is a wrong statement
    Now after wheel sinks
    At that time, O king, the earth swallowed up one of wheels of Karna’s car. Quickly alighting then from his vehicle, he seized his sunken wheel with his two arms and endeavored to lift it up with a great effort.
    Dhananjaya blazed up with fury. Then, O king, blazing flames of fire seemed to emanate from all the pores of the angry Partha’s body. The sight seemed to be exceedingly wonderful. Beholding it, Karna, invoking the brahmastra, showered his shafts upon Dhananjaya, and once more made an effort to extricate his car. Partha also, by the aid of the brahmastra, poured arrowy downpours upon Karna. Baffling with his own weapon the weapon of his foe, the son of Pandu continued to strike him. The son of Kunti then, aiming at Karna sped another favourite weapon of his that was inspired with the energy of Agni. Sped by Arjuna, that weapon blazed up with its own energy. Karna, however, quenched that conflagration with the Varuna weapon. The Suta’s son also, by the clouds he created, caused all the points of the compass to be shrouded with a darkness such as may be seen on a rainy day. The son of Pandu, endued with great energy, fearlessly dispelled those clouds by means of the Vayavya weapon in the very sight of Karna.

    SO SACHIN KARNAS WEAPONS ARE NOT EXHAUSTED AS YOU ARE SAYING HE IS FIRING BRAHMA ASTRA AND AGNI ASTRA. The Suta’s son then, for slaying the son of Pandu, took up a terrible arrow blazing like fire.
    That shaft of keen point and endued with the effulgence of Sakra’s thunder, sped from Karna’s arms, fell upon Dhananjaya’s chest and penetrated it like a mighty snake penetrating an ant-hill. That grinder of foes, viz., the high-souled Vibhatsu, thus deeply pierced in that encounter, began to reel. His grasp became loosened, at which his bow Gandiva dropped from his hand. He trembled like the prince of mountains in an earthquake.
    SACHIN SUPPORT STAFF MAY BE KILLED BUT KARNA IS DOING QUITE WELL ARJUNA SWOONING. SURELY KARNAS WEAPONS ARENT EXHAUSTED.
    Availing himself of that opportunity, the mighty car-warrior Vrisha, desirous of extricating his car-wheel that had been swallowed up by the earth, jumped down from his vehicle. Seizing the wheel with his two arms he endeavoured to drag it up, but though possessed of great strength, he failed in his efforts, as destiny would have it. Meanwhile the diadem-decked and high-souled Arjuna, recovering his senses, took up a shaft, fatal as the rod of Death, and called anjalika. Then Vasudeva, addressing Partha, said, “Cut off with thy arrow the head of this enemy of thine, viz., Vrisha, before he succeeds in getting upon his car.” Applauding those words of the lord Vasudeva, and while the wheel of his enemy was still sunk, the mighty car-warrior Arjuna took up a razor-headed arrow of blazing effulgence and struck the standard (of Karna) bearing the elephant’s
    THIS IS THE FACT AT THE TIME OF KARNA VS ARJUNA BATTLE
    NOW YOUR QUOTE AS FOLLOWS
    “Sanjaya said, ‘Beholding the troops crushed with arrows in that
    encounter between Karna and Arjuna, Salya proceeded, filled with
    wrath, on that CAR DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS. Beholding his army deprived
    of the Suta’s son and its cars and steeds and elephants destroyed,
    Duryodhana, with eyes bathed in tears, repeatedly sighed the very
    YOU HAVE BEEN PREACHING YOURSELF HOARSE THAT SEE WHAT ACUTALLY HAPPENDED AND DON’T BELIEVE IN WHO SAID TO WHOMS SO YOUR ABOVE QUOTE STANDS PUNCTURED. AND EVEN THEN THE STATEMENT IS NOT CAR DIVESTED OF ALL ITS EQUIPMENTS. YES SOME EQUIPMENTS MAY BE DIVESTED. AND THE STAMENT all of Karna’s high weapons were exhausted I HAVE PUNCTURED ABOVE. FURTHER MORE IF WHATS SAID AT THE END IS SO IMPORTANT WE HAVE SHALYA PARVA SECTION 61 – 62.
    IN ANY CASE CAR DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENT IS FALSE AS KARNA SURELY DIDN’T KNOCK OUT ARJUNA BY BLOWING FLYING KISSES AT HIM

    Now Sachin quotes
    Further, Arjun had made Karna swoon & give up his bow/quiver in the middle of fight, means karna was in vulnerable position…..
    My ans This was seen about arjuna also. Karna swoon was so temporary he was up in a conversation. Aruna took more time to recover.
    Sachin further quote
    Below passages prove that the fully armed Karna was weak/vulnerable & could not gain any upperhand over Arjun:
    “When at last Karna found that he could not prevail over Partha and was exceedingly scorched with the shafts of the former, that hero, his limbs very much mangled, set his heart upon that shaft of his which lay singly within a quiver.”
    MY ANS A balatant lie I have already proven before his chariot wheel sinking karna was getting better of arjuna. And after that karna fired a sizzling arrow by which arjuna got saved by Krishna . Sachin please don’t do this and loose your self respect. We all have access to sacred texts. You keep coming up with this old trick of yours and sending us on wild goose chases which is futile.
    Sachin ans- Niraj, this has become your habit of your getting defeated in arguements with me but still coming back later with same argument again…..
    Firstly Arjun NEVER backed off from Karna’s 2nd Bhargavastra, because the battle was still continuing…. Secondly, Arjun was NOT having an active battle with Karna during his 1st Bhargavastra, so no question of backing-off or defeat…… You have failed to prove any of your claims….. so stop beating your punctured Dhol, because it wont change the facts & it will only waste your time here…..
    My ans My opinion about you is remarkably similar. He didn’t back off but he was rendered stunned. Part one before active battle only he was taken away from battle field. But they were face to face.
    My statement-“Yes that’s on option but warrior standing on ground also can face arjuna and get back on the same chariot and knock out his opponent which Karna did. So there is no option cut down as such. Rama lakshamana fought most of their battels on ground only.”
    Sachin ans- Then why was Karna BEGGING to Arjun to not to kill him ?? Because if you claim that Karna was not helpless (till the end) & he could fight from ground, then such capable(not helpless) warrior Karna BEGGING in front of his mortal enemy, is a sign of absolute cowardness…. So you accept that Karna was a cowrd of 1st order…??
    My ans Sachin see you have changed to content of this blog. Before your arrival it was purely Mahabharata. Now it is Mahabharata according to believe in supernatural or not believe in supernatural. I have claimed even a warrior doesn’t need a bow to launch a counter attack. And by this logic even if arjuna kills an unarmed karna that also ok with me. Its you who brought the mb as per individuals liking and hence I am debating as per your rules and understanding

    Smarty made comment on you as follow

    January 22, 2015 at 5:53 pm
    sachin claims,
    pandavas were the strongest force of India during Mb times & their superiority is easily proved by the followng facts:
    1. At Rajsuya Yagya, Pandavas subjugated whole India(including Hastinapur) & nobody dared to challenge the superiority of Pandvas & Yudi became the Samraat…..
    2. At Viraat war, a lone Arjun thrashed the whole Kuru army & again proved the dominance of Pandavas over other kingdoms…..
    3. Pandavas never lost a full fledged war in their whole life, hence they were an Invincible force…

    My counter points.
    Pandavas worshiped Shri Krishna and hence pandavas were their servants.
    Pandavas played the game twice ..and hence they were worried about hastinapura force and also scared that’s why they took time to prepare themselves for battle .
    And King Virat plotting with pandavas killed Kichaka who was becoming more popular than the King itself.
    Karna never fled from Druapda , show any line where it says Karna fled from the battle. don’t speak lies.
    Virat yudh is full of supernatural factors like Divine species getting on the chariot of Arjuna to protect him which actually Arjuna himself called upon and later supernatural Sanmohana weapon.
    and hence Supernatural , following Sachin’s own measuring standard it fails.
    duplicity cannot be allowed .Even bloggers like Anand , sujal , sanjay are following one line of opinion.Sachin is the only one who is following duplicity. and he cant get rid off Virat yudh simply becs without that Arjuna’s superiority cannot be proved and also there will be no pillow to cuddle around.so he will keep wearing the duplicity Hat.
    Above was smartys comment on you and I am sorry to say I agree with him. This duplicity hat is the problem. Not your debating skill or subject matter ie arjuna bhima etc.

    Now coming to your coward statement.
    One warrior request his opponent request denied fights back and knocks out opponent. Opponent gets up and kill unarmed opponent. Sachin IMHO its arjuna who is the coward of the first order not Karna.

    Let me quote your further
    But your baseless arguement does not change the fact…. And the fact is that Karna was totally helpless at that time(as proved above), as he had no support staff or back up Car left with him… all of his best weapons had exhausted…. he was CRYING because of his poor condition….. And to make matter worse, Karna wheel stuck & Karna himself knew that he hadnt had the capability to fight from ground….. Hence he started begging in front of Arjun to not to kill him…..
    My ans after that he fired braham astra etc and knocked out arjuna this in itself punctures your claim.
    My statement-“his giving up wepons is non contextual as arjuna or rather krishna declared battle with continue so he got his weapons and knocked arjuna out.”
    Sachin ans- Exactly….. Similarly, Arjun killing armed/unarmed Karna is non-contextual here, because arjuna/krishna had declared that the battle will continue in any case…. So Karna laying aside his bow in the middle of battle is karna’s fault, so why blame Arjun here….. Hence proved Arjun did no unfair thing in this battle…..
    My ans yes its karnas fault he didn’t attack the unconscious arjuna and kill him. I agree with above statement.
    My statement-“This is proof that arjuna can only kill unarmed karna not armed karna.”
    Sachin ans- Baseless & funny claim…. Both Karna & Arjun started the final battle FULLY ARMED & the end result was that Arjun killed Karna….. Hence your funny claim has no meaning here…..
    My ans ha ha drona and drishtadyumna also started the battle fully armed. End result drishtadyumna killed drona. Ha ha ha so what ????
    Sachins quotes s
    Further Arjun defeated a fully armed Karna some 7 times & killed him on the 7th time….. BUT, Karna COULD NOT even defeat Arjun once, leave alone killing him…… Further Karna hadnt had the CAPABILITY to kill any Maharathi on his own steam with his celestial or non-celestial weapons(except Vasavi), so killing Arjun was way out of his capabilities for Karna….
    My ans Utter rubbish. He didn’t kill yudhi bhima nakula and sahadeva because of kuntis vow. 7 times arjuna defeated karna and when was that ? Let me guess Sachin puraan. And when firing celestial weapons arjuna could not beat karna.

    My statement-“His wheel sanked he was chastizied by Krishna got back on his chariot and knocked out arjuna”
    Sachin ans- Huh… so what?? Big deal ?? Making Arjun swoon for few seconds was a big deal ????? Offcourse for your karna lovers, it is a big deal, because there no significant achievements of Karna throughout MB which you can show to us….. Even Susherma makes arjun swoon for few seconds on 17th morning….. Karna got knocked out on umpteen times by Arjun/Bhima/Satyaki etc…..
    My ans I have passages of karna also thrashing bhima and satyaki Arjuna was not swooned for few seconds. It was quite elaborately described.
    Sachin ans- You yourself said that-“But if that enemy in mid of battle by folly after knocking me out LAYS DOWN HIS GUN ON HIS OWN”…. Further it is a fact that Karna LAYED DOWN HIS WEAPON ON HIS OWN(means accepted defeat)….
    My ans I didn’t understand the point you are trying to make.
    My statement-” Even from your point of view that bhima did not run away bhima was still helpless as he was attacking karna and astra rendered him and the battalion helpless.”
    Sachin ans- It still proves nothing….. Your Niraj-puraan definition of “being helpless implies defeat” is funny & rubbish as ever….. Dont crack such jokes repetidily…..
    My ans Your Sachin puraan of standing like a ghughuprasad is being invincible is funny and rubbish as ever don’t crack jokes
    My statement-“After which yudhi was captured.”
    Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha… Ha..ha..ha… When did this happen ??? In Niraj-puraan ?????
    My ans no in KMG karna set yudhi free later.
    My statement-“All other questions are of similar idiocitiy range so wont even bother quoting them.”
    Sachin ans- Thanks for the personal comment… I would keep it for the record…..
    My ans It was not a personal comment it was targeted at your questions you also use the words rubbish claim so take it sportingly. I really don’t care much for your records in any case.
    Your statement-“Group battle are diffenrant dvanda yudha are different. What made abhishek bachchan a loser in zameen was in one on one battle he was ghughuprasad with those mitilatants. Soldiers will keep dying from both ends.”
    My ans- Ha..ha..ha… I again remember the Phrase-“THE CAT CAUGHT ITS OWN TONGUE HERE”….. What a U-Turn you again took Niraj….!!…… Now the group battle becomes One-on-one battle…!! But now what will happen to your funny claims of “Arjun becoming GHUGGUPRASAD in front of Karna’s 1st Bhargavastra(no one-on-one battle here) ????? And what about Bhima’s GHUGGUPRASAD status when Karna thrashed Yudi on day 17(no one-on-one battle here as well)?????
    My ans karna vs arjuna karna was approaching arjuna like the abhishek bachcan example and before only arjuna was gughu Prasad karna thrashing yudhi does not make bhima defeat. But bhima and others attack karna karna fires brahmastra and burns the whole battalion away including bhima is defeat for bhima.
    Sachin quotes And stop giving non-contextual examples of Akshay Khanna/Abhishek bachhan, because they did not defeat/kill their opponents in those battles but Arjun faced Bhragvastra & still killed Karna in the end…..
    My ans He killed and unarmed karna in the end. Not astra wielding karna.
    My statement-“Chariot wheel and Karna part two. Karna had knocked out arjun and is now facing his chariot wheel. Now Krishna tells arjuna KARNA IS NOT TO BE ALLOWED TO GET BACK ON HIS CHARIOT AND GET ARMED. NOW IS THE TIME TO KILL HIM. THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE WHAT THEY DID IN KARNA AND CHARIOT WHEEL PART ONE”
    Sachin ans- Already answered….. Karna ignoring the treat of Arjun is Karna’s fault….. And punishing the bad balls of a bowler is a sign of a Good batsman… similarly taking advantage of opponents weakness is a sign of a good warrior(arjun) & giving opportunity to the opponent & taking the opponent for granted is a sign of a weak & stupid warrior(karna)…. for which karna paid the price….. This was a war not a circus…..
    My ans Yes a sly warrior like arjuna always does that. That’s how mohommad ghuri also defeted prithiviraj Chauhan.

  13. @ Niraj,

    Your statement-“Divyastra wielding karna had defeated and knocked him senseless.”

    My ans- Karna defeated Arjuna….. Ha..ha..ha… Nice Joke from Niraj Puraan…. Now, dont blame me for laughing, kyonki aise arguement pe sirf hasaa jaa sakta hai…!! Ha..ha..ha…

    Your statement-“He was in vulnerable position only during chariot wheel sinking no credit to arjuna”

    My ans- Utter lie…. Arjun had indeed made Karna in vulnerable position in the end, because Karna was totally helpless at the end(no support staff & all of Karna’s high weapons were exhausted)…. Chariot wheel sinking is non-contextual here….

    Further, Arjun had made Karna swoon & give up his bow/quiver in the middle of fight, means karna was in vulnerable position…..

    Below passages clearly proves that Karna’s weapons were exhausted in the final battle….. This is the passage after Karna’s death:

    Sanjaya said, ‘Beholding the troops crushed with arrows in that
    encounter between Karna and Arjuna, Salya proceeded, filled with
    wrath, on that CAR DIVESTED OF EQUIPMENTS. Beholding his army deprived
    of the Suta’s son and its cars and steeds and elephants destroyed,
    Duryodhana, with eyes bathed in tears, repeatedly sighed the very

    picture of woe.

    Below passages prove that the fully armed Karna was weak/vulnerable & could not gain any upperhand over Arjun:

    “When at last Karna found that he could not prevail over Partha and was exceedingly scorched with the shafts of the former, that hero, his limbs very much mangled, set his heart upon that shaft of his which lay singly within a quiver.”

    The above passage clearly shows that Karna was in vulnerable position in the end…… Chariot wheel sinking is non-contextual here…..

    Your statement-“My statement-“My statement-“Karna as still standing for fight arjuna backed out of bhargavastra hence arjuna also defeted” Sachin ans- Utter Lie…. Hence itself puntured… I won again….My ans It’s the truth. Congrats on your fake victory.” Sachin ans- Already punctured….. And your claims are a total lie… Hence i won again… My ans prove my claim is a lie with relevant passages.

    My ans- Niraj, this has become your habit of your getting defeated in arguements with me but still coming back later with same argument again…..

    Firstly Arjun NEVER backed off from Karna’s 2nd Bhargavastra, because the battle was still continuing…. Secondly, Arjun was NOT having an active battle with Karna during his 1st Bhargavastra, so no question of backing-off or defeat…… You have failed to prove any of your claims….. so stop beating your punctured Dhol, because it wont change the facts & it will only waste your time here…..

    Your statement-“Yes that’s on option but warrior standing on ground also can face arjuna and get back on the same chariot and knock out his opponent which Karna did. So there is no option cut down as such. Rama lakshamana fought most of their battels on ground only.”

    My ans- Then why was Karna BEGGING to Arjun to not to kill him ?? Because if you claim that Karna was not helpless (till the end) & he could fight from ground, then such capable(not helpless) warrior Karna BEGGING in front of his mortal enemy, is a sign of absolute cowardness…. So you accept that Karna was a cowrd of 1st order…??

    But your baseless arguement does not change the fact…. And the fact is that Karna was totally helpless at that time(as proved above), as he had no support staff or back up Car left with him… all of his best weapons had exhausted…. he was CRYING because of his poor condition….. And to make matter worse, Karna wheel stuck & Karna himself knew that he hadnt had the capability to fight from ground….. Hence he started begging in front of Arjun to not to kill him…..

    Your statement-“his giving up wepons is non contextual as arjuna or rather krishna declared battle with continue so he got his weapons and knocked arjuna out.”

    My ans- Exactly….. Similarly, Arjun killing armed/unarmed Karna is non-contextual here, because arjuna/krishna had declared that the battle will continue in any case…. So Karna laying aside his bow in the middle of battle is karna’s fault, so why blame Arjun here….. Hence proved Arjun did no unfair thing in this battle…..

    Your statement-“This is proof that arjuna can only kill unarmed karna not armed karna.”

    My ans- Baseless & funny claim…. Both Karna & Arjun started the final battle FULLY ARMED & the end result was that Arjun killed Karna….. Hence your funny claim has no meaning here…..

    Further Arjun defeated a fully armed Karna some 7 times & killed him on the 7th time….. BUT, Karna COULD NOT even defeat Arjun once, leave alone killing him…… Further Karna hadnt had the CAPABILITY to kill any Maharathi on his own steam with his celestial or non-celestial weapons(except Vasavi), so killing Arjun was way out of his capabilities for Karna….

    Your statement-“Karna firing all his divyastras had nullified arjunas weppons.”

    My ans- Huh… so what?? Big deal ??… Even Arjun nullified Karna Divyastras on many occasions:

    “The sight seemed to be exceedingly wonderful. Beholding it, Karna, invoking the Brahma weapon, showered his shafts upon Dhananjaya, and once more made an effort to extricate his car. Partha also, by the aid of the Brahma weapon, poured arrowy down-pours upon Kama. Baffling with his own weapon the weapon of his foe, the son of Pandu continued to strike him.”

    Your statement-“His wheel sanked he was chastizied by Krishna got back on his chariot and knocked out arjuna”

    My ans- Huh… so what?? Big deal ?? Making Arjun swoon for few seconds was a big deal ????? Offcourse for your karna lovers, it is a big deal, because there no significant achievements of Karna throughout MB which you can show to us….. Even Susherma makes arjun swoon for few seconds on 17th morning….. Karna got knocked out on umpteen times by Arjun/Bhima/Satyaki etc…..

    Your statement-“Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha… So you accepted that Karna himself gave up his weapons in front of Arjun(means accepted defeat)….. Great …. I won this arguement as well….My ans please read the passage carfully. I have mentioned no such thing.”

    My ans- You yourself said that-“But if that enemy in mid of battle by folly after knocking me out LAYS DOWN HIS GUN ON HIS OWN”…. Further it is a fact that Karna LAYED DOWN HIS WEAPON ON HIS OWN(means accepted defeat)….

    Your statement-” Even from your point of view that bhima did not run away bhima was still helpless as he was attacking karna and astra rendered him and the battalion helpless.”

    My ans- It still proves nothing….. Your Niraj-puraan definition of “being helpless implies defeat” is funny & rubbish as ever….. Dont crack such jokes repetidily…..

    Your statement-“After which yudhi was captured.”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha… Ha..ha..ha… When did this happen ??? In Niraj-puraan ?????

    Your statement-“All other questions are of similar idiocitiy range so wont even bother quoting them.”

    My ans- Thanks for the personal comment… I would keep it for the record…..

    Your statement-“Group battle are diffenrant dvanda yudha are different. What made abhishek bachchan a loser in zameen was in one on one battle he was ghughuprasad with those mitilatants. Soldiers will keep dying from both ends.”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha… I again remember the Phrase-“THE CAT CAUGHT ITS OWN TONGUE HERE”….. What a U-Turn you again took Niraj….!!…… Now the group battle becomes One-on-one battle…!! But now what will happen to your funny claims of “Arjun becoming GHUGGUPRASAD in front of Karna’s 1st Bhargavastra(no one-on-one battle here) ????? And what about Bhima’s GHUGGUPRASAD status when Karna thrashed Yudi on day 17(no one-on-one battle here as well)?????

    This clearly punctures you own “GHUGGUPRASAD theory” which is baseless, hypothetical & funny as ever…..

    And stop giving non-contextual examples of Akshay Khanna/Abhishek bachhan, because they did not defeat/kill their opponents in those battles but Arjun faced Bhragvastra & still killed Karna in the end…..

    Your statement-“Chariot wheel and Karna part two. Karna had knocked out arjun and is now facing his chariot wheel. Now Krishna tells arjuna KARNA IS NOT TO BE ALLOWED TO GET BACK ON HIS CHARIOT AND GET ARMED. NOW IS THE TIME TO KILL HIM. THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE WHAT THEY DID IN KARNA AND CHARIOT WHEEL PART ONE”

    My ans- Already answered….. Karna ignoring the treat of Arjun is Karna’s fault….. And punishing the bad balls of a bowler is a sign of a Good batsman… similarly taking advantage of opponents weakness is a sign of a good warrior(arjun) & giving opportunity to the opponent & taking the opponent for granted is a sign of a weak & stupid warrior(karna)…. for which karna paid the price….. This was a war not a circus…..

  14. Niraj,

    Thanks for sharing your post addressed to me. But I must confess that it was too heavy for me owing to various schools of thoughts involved which I do not have much knowledge of. We should understand the bigger picture rather than getting carried away by micro-detailing of creation which is VERY COMPLEX & MISLEADING. I will try to share my thoughts in very simple way based on the discussion among the participants you posted.

    If you cover an electric bulb with multiple layers of coloured clothes and papers, they will hide its light and heat. In the same manner our soul is covered with gunas, prakriti, karmas (previous lives), flesh, blood, bones and our mind. The soul requires all these things in this physical plane for body to function. Otherwise soul is a pure drop (nirguna w/o any impurity) of ocean called God (param-atma). The essence of param-atma i.e. soul can take any form from an ant to dinosaur. It is like water/air taking shape of the vessel. You might have watched in some movies how the spiritual enlightenment/death is shown through portrayal of a tiny flame (jyoti) leaving the body and getting merged with some light coming from above. This flame IS SAME IN EVERYONE and is neither body nor any other material which any science or philosophy can explain. As soon as the flame or soul leaves the body, the body is dead/non-functional in this physical world. So neither our organs nor any other material faculty operates our bodies but our soul. The soul empowers all energies, chemical reactions and functioning in our body till our death. Death is nothing but completion of our karmic account with our surroundings and environment we are given in a particular life. A new account starts with new life.

    As far as relation between various tatavas/gunas/prakritis is concerned, the subject is very complex and tricky. Why?? As sunlight originating from same sun behaves differently on different surfaces so is the behavior of tattavas/gunas. This explains why there are various relationships between jad, jiv, iswar and maya with different degrees of activeness/dormancy. The participants were discussing this vibrancy only with respective arguments. In some people one is more active than the others. From spiritual point of view, jad (dormant/unconsciousness/unawareness/ignorance etc) is the one which is not enlightened and chetan (conscious/alive/knowledge/awakened etc) is one which is beyond the realms of maya and has conquered mind. An awakened person will never be bothered of dreams of his sleep because he knows the reality (Chetna/consciousness). This is the reason why spiritually awakened person (saint) treats this world as a dream (illusion/maya/deceptiveness etc) and is above & free of all worldly affairs. This does not mean that one leaves his duties of life by taking sanyas rather one should perform all duties without attachment to this world. This is what Geeta says but most of us get too engrossed in the message – Yudh kar…or kill the bad people….or establish dharma etc….!!

    “True dharma is to realize the fact that soul is going through human experience (HUMAN BEING) so that it can realize its true identity and return back to its origin i.e. God. While doing so one should not get entangled, misled, confused, distracted, obsessed and baffled by what is happening in this world. The world will continue operating like this only with Good and Bad both having their significant share in kaalchakra.”

  15. Sujaal your statement.
    Karna could have fought from ground. Arjuna fought from ground when his steeds were deeply injured unlike Karna he did not get obssessed or gave excuses like “see my steeds got mangled badly i have to give them rest so please dont attack me”.So who stopped Karna from fighting on foot ?? But kya kare Karna has nothing to show but excuses every time he gets defeated.
    My ans First of all going purely by mb a maharathi does not need his bow to launch a counter attack. So foot or no foot is non contextual. Technically from mbs pov your statement is correct. But going purely by mb Karna had already fired his weapons his altra powered astras on Arjunas for which he was saved by Krishna as reveled in shalya parva section 62. This explanation was for Sachin who does not believe in the supernatural.

    Now coming to your example
    Sujaal says
    So who stopped Karna from fighting on foot ??
    My ans Arjuna swooned so fighting an unconscious warrior is out of the question
    When arjuna regained his senses karna was unarmed – Point to be noted.
    Now lets go further on your post. I will quote relevant sections of it
    Arjuna then said, ‘I will hold in check the whole army, O Kesava! Do thou properly perform that which should be done next.’
    “Sanjaya continued, ‘Alighting then from the terrace of his car, Dhananjaya, taking up his bow, Gandiva, fearlessly stood there like an immovable hill.
    And the great Kshatriya warriors impetuously rushed against that bull among Kshatriyas, that lion among men, like infuriated elephants rushing towards a lion. The might then that we beheld, of Partha’s arms was exceedingly great, since, filled with rage, alone, he succeeded in resisting those countless warriors. The puissant Partha, baffling with his own weapons those of the foes,
    ‘After the high-souled son of Kunti had created that water, after he had commenced to hold in cheek the hostile army, and after he had built also that arrowy hall, Vasudeva of great splendour, alighting from the car, unyoked the steeds pierced and mangled with arrows. Beholding that sight never seen before, loud uproars of applause were heard there, uttered by the Siddhas and the Charanas and by all the warriors.’ Then Hrishikesa, of eyes like lotus-petals, smiling with the coolest assurance, as if, O Bharata, he was in the midst of an assembly of women (and not armed foes), after Arjuna had created in the field of battle that hall, made of arrows, led the steeds into it, in the very sight. O monarch, of all thy troops. And Krishna, who was well-skilled in grooming horses, then removed their fatigue, pain, froth, trembling and wounds. 1 Then plucking out their arrows and rubbing those steeds with his own hands, and making them trot duly, he caused them to drink.
    So here its armed arjuna fighting these warriors. And the battle was continuing and Krishna was doing his job as charioteer ie warrior charioteer in perfect combo can you say the same for shalya and karna ?? Shalya may have been of some use to karna ie when bhima injured karna he took karna away from battle to safety but that’s just on oasis in the desert. Even if you ignore Krishnas divinity Shalya was not in the same league as Krishna both in cooperation with maharathi and competency.
    So your point although is good not exactly well made.

  16. Karna could have fought from ground. Arjuna fought from ground when his steeds were deeply injured unlike Karna he did not get obssessed or gave excuses like “see my steeds got mangled badly i have to give them rest so please dont attack me”.

    So who stopped Karna from fighting on foot ?? But kya kare Karna has nothing to show but excuses every time he gets defeated.

    Arjuna then said, ‘I will hold in check the whole army, O Kesava! Do thou properly perform that which should be done next.’

    “Sanjaya continued, ‘Alighting then from the terrace of his car, Dhananjaya, taking up his bow, Gandiva, fearlessly stood there like an immovable hill. Beholding Dhananjaya standing on the ground, and regarding it a good opportunity, the Kshatriyas, desirous of victory and uttering loud shouts, rushed towards him. Him standing along, they surrounded with a large throng of cars, all stretching their bows and showering their shafts on him. Filled with wrath, they displayed diverse kinds of weapons and entirely shrouded Partha with their shafts like the clouds shrouding the sun. And the great Kshatriya warriors impetuously rushed against that bull among Kshatriyas, that lion among men, like infuriated elephants rushing towards a lion. The might then that we beheld, of Partha’s arms was exceedingly great, since, filled with rage, alone, he succeeded in resisting those countless warriors. The puissant Partha, baffling with his own weapons those of the foes, quickly covered all of them with countless shafts. In that part of the welkin, O monarch, in consequence of the clash Of those dense showers of shafts, a fire was generated emitting incessant sparks. There, in consequence of hostile heroes, countless in number, all filled with wrath, and all great bowmen united together for a common Purpose, seeking victory in battle, aided by steeds, covered with blood and breathing hard, and by infuriated and foe-grinding elephants, uttering loud shrieks, the atmosphere became exceedingly hot. That uncrossable, wide, and limitless ocean of cars, incapable of being agitated, had arrows for its current, standards for its eddies, elephants for its crocodiles,

    Further passages say

    “Sanjaya said, ‘After the high-souled son of Kunti had created that water, after he had commenced to hold in cheek the hostile army, and after he had built also that arrowy hall, Vasudeva of great splendour, alighting from the car, unyoked the steeds pierced and mangled with arrows. Beholding that sight never seen before, loud uproars of applause were heard there, uttered by the Siddhas and the Charanas and by all the warriors. Mighty car-warriors (assembled together) were unable to resist the son of Kunti, even when he fought on foot. All this seemed highly wonderful. Although throngs upon throngs of cars, and myriads of elephants and steeds, rushed towards him, yet Partha felt no fear but fought on, prevailing upon all his foes. And the (hostile) kings shot showers of shafts at the son of Pandu. That slayer of hostile heroes, however, viz., the son of Vasava, of virtuous soul, felt no anxiety whatever. Indeed, the valiant Partha received hundreds of arrowy showers and maces and lances coming towards him as the ocean receives hundreds upon hundreds of rivers flowing towards it. With the impetuous might of his own weapons and strength of his arms, Partha received the foremost of shafts

    shot at him by those foremost of kings. Although staying on the ground, and alone, he succeeded yet in baffling all those kings on their cars, like that one fault, avarice, destroying a host of accomplishments. The Kauravas, O king, applauded the highly wonderful prowess of Partha as also of Vasudeva, saying, ‘What more wonderful incident hath ever taken place in this world, or will ever take place than this, viz., that Partha and Govinda, in course of battle, have unyoked their steeds? Displaying fierce energy on the field of battle and the greatest assurance, those best of men have inspired us with great thoughts.’ Then Hrishikesa, of eyes like lotus-petals, smiling with the coolest assurance, as if, O Bharata, he was in the midst of an assembly of women (and not armed foes), after Arjuna had created in the field of battle that hall, made of arrows, led the steeds into it, in the very sight. O monarch, of all thy troops. And Krishna, who was well-skilled in grooming horses, then removed their fatigue, pain, froth, trembling and wounds. 1 Then plucking out their arrows and rubbing those steeds with his own hands, and making them trot duly, he caused them to drink.

  17. Sachin did ask an intelligent question
    “Otherwise what do you expect from Arjun… To wait till midnight till Karna lifts his weapons ?? Or to spare Karna totally, only because Karna refuses to lift his weapons ??
    My ans Chiraan also had asked this same question.
    Chariot wheel sinks karna jumps to lift chariot wheel part one
    Krishna arjuna made it clear to karna they are attacking him. They are facing karna. Karna gets back on the chariot knocks out arjuna
    Chariot wheel and Karna part two. Karna had knocked out arjun and is now facing his chariot wheel. Now Krishna tells arjuna KARNA IS NOT TO BE ALLOWED TO GET BACK ON HIS CHARIOT AND GET ARMED. NOW IS THE TIME TO KILL HIM. THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE WHAT THEY DID IN KARNA AND CHARIOT WHEEL PART ONE

  18. Sachin I will deal with the section of answer first.
    Sachin ans- As expected… the same immature childish understanding of yours…. I did not claim that the exact sequence of events occurred in Arjun vs Karna final battle….. But my intention was to show that the killer first used to make his opponent helpless & then he used to kill him…… And Arjun had indeed made the divyastra weidling Karna helpless in the end, & the only thing which was left for Arjun was to kill Karna(even if his wheels had not stuck), but Karna saw his death & hence he started begging to Arjun to spare him…..
    My ans You are using personal insults now immature childish understanding etc. I wont reltialte on personal level for now so that this personal battle stops. But if you are persistent then I will retaliate and then don’t go crying to dhruv.
    Now remaining of your post ans is
    Divyastra wielding karna had defeated and knocked him senseless. He was in vulnerable position only during chariot wheel sinking no credit to arjuna after that got back on his chariot and knocked the armed arjuna out. Since he didn’t have an iraada to run away support staff coming not coming etc is all nonsense. Jayadarthat style running away is always an option more so when is opponent is senseless.
    My statement-“Not really. Lions capability is superior and dave was at its mercy and defeated so no dude you have not really won unless of course some three pages later you come up with this same crappy point and start laughing ha ha ha ha”
    Sachin ans- Already punctured…..
    My ans or rather question since when ? Dave was not at its mercy. So standing dave was superior to lion ha ha ha perhaps he became ajay devgan of himmatwala

    My statement-“My statement-“Karna as still standing for fight arjuna backed out of bhargavastra hence arjuna also defeted” Sachin ans- Utter Lie…. Hence itself puntured… I won again….My ans It’s the truth. Congrats on your fake victory.”
    Sachin ans- Already punctured….. And your claims are a total lie… Hence i won again…
    My ans prove my claim is a lie with relevant passages.
    Sachin ans- Again the same immature understanding….. The support staff was not only there to help the main warrior run away from battlefield but they were there to help the main warrior in every dire situation….. E.g. when Karna broke the car of Bhima on day 17 (?) & Bhima jumps on the car of Sahdev & continues the fight…. Similary, on day 14, when the final battle takes place between Jaydrath & his supporters on one side & Arjun/Bhima/Satyaki on other side then Karna’s car is broken by Arjun but Karna jumps on to the car of Duryo & continues the fight….. But on day 17, this option of Karna was cut down by Arjun because Arjun killed all the support staff of Karna, hence no one could help Karna in his dire situation & hence Karna was begging to Arjun…….
    My ans. Yes that’s on option but warrior standing on ground also can face arjuna and get back on the same chariot and knock out his opponent which Karna did. So there is no option cut down as such. Rama lakshamana fought most of their battels on ground only.
    Sachin ans- Non-contextual arguement….. You yourself claimed that Karna was unarmed at that time… Hence this proves that Karna had given up his weapons on his own… Hence defeated…..
    My ans his giving up wepons is non contextual as arjuna or rather krishna declared battle with continue so he got his weapons and knocked arjuna out.

    My statement-“Arjuna killed unarmed karna.”
    Sachin ans- Yes offcourse, because Karna had alreay accepted defeated by giving up his weapons… And so Arjun had no other option left then to kill unarmed Karna only….. Otherwise what do you expect from Arjun… To wait till midnight till Karna lifts his weapons ?? Or to spare Karna totally, only because Karna refuses to lift his weapons ?? ….. Childish arguement….
    My ans No karna had not accepted defeat he got back on his chariot and knocked him out. This is proof that arjuna can only kill unarmed karna not armed karna. Karna

    My statement-“Arjuna can only kill unamred opponents who become unarmed themselves Killing an opponent with all guns blazing firing divysatras uske bas ki baat hi nahee thee.”
    Sachin ans- Utter lie…. Arjun indeed killed Karna in the same battle in which he was firing all of his divyastras……
    My ans Karna firing all his divyastras had nullified arjunas weppons. His wheel sanked he was chastizied by Krishna got back on his chariot and knocked out arjuna Arjuna could kill him only when he was unarmed.

    My statement-“Arjuna can only kill unamred opponents who become unarmed themselves Killing an opponent with all guns blazing firing divysatras uske bas ki baat hi nahee thee. It was just beyond his limited capabilities. Its like when enemy comes with guns I am ghughuprasad. But if that enemy in mid of battle by folly after knocking me out lays down his gun on his own I can slyly get up give some irrelevant warning shot and stab him in the back.”
    Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha… So you accepted that Karna himself gave up his weapons in front of Arjun(means accepted defeat)….. Great …. I won this arguement as well….
    My ans please read the passage carfully. I have mentioned no such thing.
    My statement-“He was Standing helplessly in active battle like abhishek bacchan in zameen hence defeated.”
    Sachin ans- Niraj Puraan HAWA-MAHAL claim….. Hence invalid……
    My ans I don’t think so
    My statement-“no where I have said bhima ran away. He was ghughuprasad in front of the astra and that’s the reason why karna captured yudhi.”
    Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha… I just remembered a famous phrase here-“THE CAT CAUGHT ITS OWN TONGUE HERE”….. What a U-Turn you took Niraj….!! This proves your defeat….. When you realised that you cannot prove that Bhima ran away from Karna, so you took a U-Turn & now you are claiming your Niraj puraan- “ghughuprasad in front of the astra” punctured theory, which i absolutely rubbish & Proves nothing…..
    My ans I remember a phrase miya ki jooti miya ke sir. Even from your point of view that bhima did not run away bhima was still helpless as he was attacking karna and astra rendered him and the battalion helpless. After which yudhi was captured.

    Sachins statement Now since you have been blabbering your “Ghughuprasad theory” quiet often, so let me ask you few question about this rubbish theory of yours:
    Q1. When Bhima killed Dusshashan in front of Karna, & Karna was a “Ghughuprasad” at this moment…. so by your theory, he was defeated by Bhima… right ??
    All other questions are of similar idiocitiy range so wont even bother quoting them.
    . This already has been explained. Group battle are diffenrant dvanda yudha are different. What made abhishek bachchan a loser in zameen was in one on one battle he was ghughuprasad with those mitilatants. Soldiers will keep dying from both ends. Akshay khannas ghughuprasad status was prob with sunny deol not indain army soldiers getting killed in his vicinity. IN one on one confrontation akshay khanna puked and hence he was chastizied by sunny deol.

  19. @ Niraj,

    Your statement-“Not really. Lions capability is superior and dave was at its mercy and defeated so no dude you have not really won unless of course some three pages later you come up with this same crappy point and start laughing ha ha ha ha”

    My ans- Already punctured…..

    Your statement-“My statement-“Karna as still standing for fight arjuna backed out of bhargavastra hence arjuna also defeted” Sachin ans- Utter Lie…. Hence itself puntured… I won again….My ans It’s the truth. Congrats on your fake victory.”

    My ans- Already punctured….. And your claims are a total lie… Hence i won again…..

    Your statement-“This proves your lacko of understanding of wars. A warrior who has to run away even if he doesn’t find options will run away. Jayadartha wanted to run away in the jungle episode was with out support and was in running mode and as far as chariot wheel sinking is concerned clearly arjun could not have planned that. Karna was not interested in running away at least at that stage.”

    My ans- Again the same immature understanding….. The support staff was not only there to help the main warrior run away from battlefield but they were there to help the main warrior in every dire situation….. E.g. when Karna broke the car of Bhima on day 17 (?) & Bhima jumps on the car of Sahdev & continues the fight…. Similary, on day 14, when the final battle takes place between Jaydrath & his supporters on one side & Arjun/Bhima/Satyaki on other side then Karna’s car is broken by Arjun but Karna jumps on to the car of Duryo & continues the fight….. But on day 17, this option of Karna was cut down by Arjun because Arjun killed all the support staff of Karna, hence no one could help Karna in his dire situation & hence Karna was begging to Arjun…….

    Your statement-“what give up his weapons. He got back on his chariot and knocked out arjuna.”

    My ans- Non-contextual arguement….. You yourself claimed that Karna was unarmed at that time… Hence this proves that Karna had given up his weapons on his own… Hence defeated…..

    Your statement-“Arjuna killed unarmed karna.”

    My ans- Yes offcourse, because Karna had alreay accepted defeated by giving up his weapons… And so Arjun had no other option left then to kill unarmed Karna only….. Otherwise what do you expect from Arjun… To wait till midnight till Karna lifts his weapons ?? Or to spare Karna totally, only because Karna refuses to lift his weapons ?? ….. Childish arguement….

    Your statement-“For your ignorant understanding, looking at the trend of MB wars, a killer first makes his opponent helpless(by breaking his bow/car,)… My ans excuse me and when did that happen in the karna arjuna battle ?…. Second statement killing his support staff/charioteer etc)…..My ans – Only support staff was killed. Charioteer killed ha aha ha…. next ….& then he kills his opponent….My ans yes only when his opponent was lifting his chariot wheel Unarmed opponent.”

    My ans- As expected… the same immature childish understanding of yours…. I did not claim that the exact sequence of events occurred in Arjun vs Karna final battle….. But my intention was to show that the killer first used to make his opponent helpless & then he used to kill him…… And Arjun had indeed made the divyastra weidling Karna helpless in the end, & the only thing which was left for Arjun was to kill Karna(even if his wheels had not stuck), but Karna saw his death & hence he started begging to Arjun to spare him…..

    Your statement-“Arjuna can only kill unamred opponents who become unarmed themselves Killing an opponent with all guns blazing firing divysatras uske bas ki baat hi nahee thee.”

    My ans- Utter lie…. Arjun indeed killed Karna in the same battle in which he was firing all of his divyastras……

    Your statement-“Arjuna can only kill unamred opponents who become unarmed themselves Killing an opponent with all guns blazing firing divysatras uske bas ki baat hi nahee thee. It was just beyond his limited capabilities. Its like when enemy comes with guns I am ghughuprasad. But if that enemy in mid of battle by folly after knocking me out lays down his gun on his own I can slyly get up give some irrelevant warning shot and stab him in the back.”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha… So you accepted that Karna himself gave up his weapons in front of Arjun(means accepted defeat)….. Great …. I won this arguement as well….

    Your statement-“He was Standing helplessly in active battle like abhishek bacchan in zameen hence defeated.”

    My ans- Niraj Puraan HAWA-MAHAL claim….. Hence invalid……

    Your statement-“no where I have said bhima ran away. He was ghughuprasad in front of the astra and that’s the reason why karna captured yudhi.”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha… I just remembered a famous phrase here-“THE CAT CAUGHT ITS OWN TONGUE HERE”….. What a U-Turn you took Niraj….!! This proves your defeat….. When you realised that you cannot prove that Bhima ran away from Karna, so you took a U-Turn & now you are claiming your Niraj puraan- “ghughuprasad in front of the astra” punctured theory, which i absolutely rubbish & Proves nothing…..

    Now since you have been blabbering your “Ghughuprasad theory” quiet often, so let me ask you few question about this rubbish theory of yours:

    Q1. When Bhima killed Dusshashan in front of Karna, & Karna was a “Ghughuprasad” at this moment…. so by your theory, he was defeated by Bhima… right ??

    Q2. When Arjun killed Jaydrath & Karna & co. failed to protect him from Arjun (means they were “Ghughuprasad”), so your theory also proves that Arjun defeated all Kuru Protectors(including Karna)…. right ??

    Q3. When Arjun killed Vrishsena in front of Karna… then Karna was a “Ghughuprasad” here, so he was defeated…. right ??

    Q4. Bhima killed many Kuru brothers on day 14 while fighting with Karna….. and Karna was only watching like a “Ghughuprasad” here, so he was defeated multiple times by Bhima here…. right ??

    Q5. On 13th day, When Abhimanyu was thrashing Kurus & killing Laxman(Duryo’s son), then Karna was watching killing like a “Ghughuprasad” here, so he was again defeated by Abhimanyu here…. right ??

  20. Sanjay below is for you. Smarty you as well since like me you are also chiraan experienced.
    Infact a debate took place on this matter

    Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya | Anandatirtha Prathishtana

    This is what I found on internet on madhavacharyas tatvavaada philosophy.( Chiraan swears by this philosophy )

    I will prove that madwa philosophy is completely false,by reading following
    comments u people come to know…….
    1) for madwas there are 5 bedas
    *)jada-jada
    *)jiva -jiva
    *)jiva-iswara
    *)jiswara-jada and jiva-jada
    —————————————…
    BUT TODAYS SCIENCE HAVE PROVED THAT THERE IS NO JADA-JADA BEDA…..i:e according
    to madhva ,gold can never become silver….but todays science have proved that by
    changing electronics configuration we can change gold to silver….WHICH ACCORDING
    TO MADHVA IMPOSSIBLE !!!!!!!…….
    2)jiva-jiva beda:
    accoring to dvaita each jiva is suguna and his prakrutika gunas are his own gunas.
    BUT I WILL PROVE THAT PRAKRUTHIKA GUNAS ARE NOT OF ATHMAS AND IS SUPER IMPOSED ON
    ATHMA,BY READING MY FOLLOWING COMMENTS U PEOPLE COME TO KNOW……..
    1)me myself, i am human i see another human in kama,but if i become dog in next
    janma,i see dog with kama…..so prakruthika guna kama is not atmans guna
    2) bhudhi:
    now when we are human we have high level of bhudhi,but if i become dog in next
    janma we have bhudhi of the level of dog,so budhi is not atmas guna
    if u go on thinking like that u will come to know that ,these gunas atman got from
    MAYA of jagath..and is not atmans guna ….so atman is nirgua and jagath is
    maya…………so madwas jath is truth and 5 bedas are false…….
    CAN ANY MADWA CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION?

    PEOPLE PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?
    Reply
    o Sudharsan Says:
    August 3, 2014 at 4:29 pm
    Who said that by changing electronic configuration all materials can be transformed into gold??? had they done that before?? If such things are “proved right” then the concerned scientists would have got “Nobel Prize”. Today’s scientists are finding it difficult even to remove a single electron from uranium 236 isotope for making it as uranium 235 in order to make it as a nuclear fuel. Then how it is possible to remove more than 100 electrons to change uranium to gold ( atomic no 72 ). If even removing an electron is that difficult, then how can almost 70 electrons be “added” to hydrogen to change it into gold. Please answer this question first and then ask other questions.
    Reply
     srivathsa Says:
    August 8, 2014 at 2:43 pm
    If you go deep in science…which says…that even matter was not there before….best example for matter conversion is sun…where hydrogen is converted to helium …and a large amnount of matter there is converted to light….thus..this proves that jada-jada beda is not absolute as said in dvaita…
    Reply
    o sparcy Says:
    October 14, 2014 at 6:48 pm
    As you said, there is no beda between Jada -Jada, by giving example of modern science, even then its impossible, and below is the reason for that, i will take the example of gold itself.
    suppose you have gold and if you mix that with copper or which any substance of your like, then its not called as complete gold, and it will lose its originality, so it will differ from its original form. if you dont agree with this statement then i guess you will buy mixed gold and you will pay the same cost for the that mixed gold.
    Now, using modern science you are trying to prove that Jada-Jada beda is not correct, the process example what you took is called Redox ( changing electronics configuration ) even this says the statement as “Redox reactions can be understood in terms of transfer of electrons from one involved species (reducing agent) to another (oxidizing agent). In this process, the former species is oxidized and the latter is reduced. Though sufficient for many purposes, these descriptions are not precisely correct.”
    for me it looks like neither you understood what is Jada – Jada beda nor you understood what will really happen when you change electronics configuration of a subject……
    Jiva-Jiva beda , again your thought process is wrong here, its better to understand what is “Pancha beda taratamya” properly then we can debate on what is right and how it is right.
    Good luck for your learning……
    Reply
     srivathsa Says:
    November 1, 2014 at 8:25 pm
    1)ok….forget science….let us take you yourself given local example
    Milk….it is one jada,curd is another jada,,,,they have different prakruthika guna…..if milk and curd are different by absolute as said by madhvacharya….milk should never become curd…..
    but milk…become curd,ghee,butter milk…etc…here the prakruthika gunas of milk (jada)changes to the prakruthika gunas of ghee,curd etc….hence…there cannot be jada-jada beda by absolute as said by madhvacharya…
    2)dress…perishes by time(kumbaagutthade)….here dress looses its prakruthika guna bala (strength)…by time…so strength is not guna of jada…
    3)when you burn your dress,the dress looses all its prakruthika gunas like colour,smoothness and become ashe,if you go on thinking like that…then there is no jada-jada beda…….as jada’s prakruthika guna changes…
    so what is the guna of jada…which makes it different from other jada,,,by absolute?
    if jada-jada beda is absolute as said by madhvacharya prakruthika gunas of jada should never change as,he says prakruthika gunas of jada are of it’s own swarupa…and it will never change…
    3)one person having a thumb print in one janma,will have another thum print in another janma…so there are not athman’s attribute…. one leave of the same tree…will not be like that…after a day…it will be grown old like big in size,change colour to yellow…etc….so there are not the gunas of jaga…if you go in thinking like that…a jada will be different from it self after a period of time….so quality changes with time…
    4) similary kama,physical appearance,thinking changes from janma to janma ..so there are not athman’s guna…so athman is nirguna…so prakruthika gunas like rajasa,tamasa,sathvika are not athman’s guna…so athman is nirguna…..
    what you say for this sir?
    Reply
    srivathsa Says:
    July 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm
    ultimate knowledge is sacchidaanada. sacchidaananda is the personality(swarupa) of brahman….which means …..
    sat(always present)….chit(consiousness)……anadnda(bliss) …..when you experience…..this ananda(bliss)…….that means your personality have become equal to sacchidaanada….in that state you have become sacchidaanada swarupi…..or in other words…..you have become sacchidaanada rupi brahman …..which is the ultimate knowledge….as vedas says…..
    so….you yourself…..have become sacchidaanada….or YOU HAVE BECOME BRAHMAN ,which is ultimate knowledge….thats why vedas say…..prajgnam brahm….or brahman is knowledge…..and you are brahman…….(aham brahmamaasmi)……this is in breaf……the essence of jgnana yoga….
    WHAT YOU SAY FOR THIS?
    )……this is in breaf……the essence of jgnana yoga….
    WHAT YOU SAY FOR THIS?
    Reply
    o Sudharsan Says:
    August 3, 2014 at 4:35 pm
    Who told ultimate knowledge is truth? or where is this statement found?
    Reply
     srivathsa Says:
    August 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm
    the statement ….prajgnam brahman ,which means brahman is the heighest knowledge possible for a athman……
    this says that the ultimate knowldge is truth…
    Reply
    srivathsa Says:
    August 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm
    Sir,
    In dvaita’s trividha jeevas…like rajasa,tamasa,and sathvika jeevas are like tv serials….where there will be a good person…who will always think good and do good ,
    there will be a bad person…who always think evil and do evil….this is just the ladys watching tv serial story….hence not practical…..
    2)In reality there is atleast a good guna in a bad person and a bad guna in a very good person….a evil person can become good one day and good person can become bad one day…..So, we cannot say evil nature or good nature are nature of his own soul…..So,there cannot be rajasa,sathvika ,tamasa jeevas…..
    SANJAY YEH LAAK TAKKE KI BAAT KAYI HAI ( SORRY GOT A LITTLE FILMY HERE AS THIS IS TRUE AND REFUTES MADHAVACHARYAS PHILOSOPHY. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE ?????

    Reply
    3. srivathsa Says:
    November 1, 2014 at 8:31 pm
    Athman is nirvikaara or nirvikaari….in dvaita
    If you accept this athman as nirvikaari ,then you should accept athman is not atomic and it is infinite or brahman…why because
    ,now one soul which is human,in this janma,if he become elephant in next janma,will his soul stretches to the size of elephant?
    similarly if that soul become ant in next janma,will its soul will compress to the size of ant?…..
    Similarly,in same janma baby will grow from the small size baby to big man,if size changes…then soul cannot be called as nirvikaari or avikaari…..
    for that purpose,advaita adviceses that athman is infinite in size,or covers whole world
    or athman is brahman…only because of ignorance…it thinks that it is limited in size……….
    what you say for this sir?
    Reply
    4. srivathsa Says:
    November 1, 2014 at 8:31 pm
    First of all ,In advaita we say shivoham,not as “Parvathi pathi”….we say shiva shivoham here shiva means supreme knowledge or supreme consciousnesses….that is it……..that means we are supreme consioussness…not parvathi’s husband
    In dvaita hari means “lakshmi ‘s husband,shiva means “parvathi’s husband”…..this is childish…..and bakwas
    If you ask a donkey…how is god…it says god is beautiful donkey …similarly madhvacharya says hari as a beautiful sarvothama lakshmi ‘s husband hari……
    Dvaita Looks like full of childish , bakwas stories
    Please answer atleast for this…..
    Reply

    The last part ended on this dvaita supporter of madhavacharyas philosophy

    o Sopan Sant Says:
    January 15, 2015 at 11:49 am
    This world is real but temporary…by our imperfect senses and mind, we can’t understand the things as they are..
    – only through the scriptures under the guidance of a spiritual master coming in a bona fide disciplic succession, can we understand the truth in totality
    According to the vedic scriptures, this world which we live in is made up of 24 elements (collectively known as prakriti) earth, fire, etc.
    and this prakriti is the energy of the Supreme Lord or Supreme Brahman (Bhagavad Gita 7.4)
    and this prakriti works under the direction of the Supreme Lord Krishna (Bhagavad Gita 9.10)
    and because the Supreme Lord is Real and eternal, therefore, his energy is also real and eternal
    although its manifestation is temporary…
    Supreme Lord is the cause of all causes and effects
    The Advaita philosophy given by Sripad Adi Sankaracarya is incomplete..it was given only to defeat the Buddhism and drive them out of India and to establish the prominence of Vedas (which were opposed by Buddhists)
    There are many fallacies in Advaita philosophy, for example – Advaita philosophers can’t answer what is Maya???
    If Brahman forgets himself under the spell of Maya, then it means that Maya is supreme and not the Brahman
    As a matter of fact, Absolute Truth is a person and the scriptures (vedas, upanishads, puranas, itihasasas, tantras) are the proof. These literatures are not the compositions of a human mind as the followers of Advaita wrongly think..
    Reply

    ON another blog this same person went and this was a refutation
    o srimadhvyasa says:
    07/07/2014 at 10:38 AM
    PraNam Srivatasa Jada Jada Bheda is proved by science. You can refer to Periodic table which details 103 three elements ( element is an independent unit of matter which cannot be split up further because it contains only one kind of matter ) They have different Atomic numbers, Electron configuration, and special chemical properties. There may the some cases where you can disturb electron configuration to change its property. However, science has never dissapproved the existence of 103 independent elements. Otherwise Scientific fraternity could have said only one element instead of 103 elements. Hence Jada Jada Bheda is proved beyond doubt by science itself.
    Jiva Jiva Bheda is well settled in Vedas and Brahma Sutra. Vedas are to be interpreted by taking Brahma Sutra as base. All Satvik Puranas and Pancharatra are PramaNas. “Sarve Vedah Yat Padamaamananthi” All veda vaakyas are to be interpreted in totality and amicably to come to conclusion. Bhagavad Geetha is sarva Shastraartha Sangraha. It clearly spells out the Bheda by saying that Jeevas are broadly grouped as Saatviks, Raajasaas and Tamasiks. Each jiva has swaroopa Guna like that. Accordingly, they have Ling Deha. They are processed in this world to shed the Ling Deh and then finally they will experience their inherent, satvik, rajasik or Tamo Guna of their nature. Number of such GuNas and Abundance of them, vary with Jiva to Jiva. These Gunas and their potential along with their Ling Deha is eternal- Anaadi. Once they shed the Ling deh (which is anadi) they will experience their true self, either in Mukti(Satviks), Rajasas(Santhanik type loka) and Tamas ( Tamasiks). Each jiva gets its destiny and experience bliss/sorrow according to their innate nature. Every one from this world will not get experience the same Ananda. It depends on their innate nature. Praktruhtika Guna what you mentioned is a fusion of coating on Swaroopa deha, which again is in accordance with the nature of Jiva. Once this Prakruthika Guna(linga Deha) is shed, one will experience the true self This linga deha is not super imposed as claimed. It is anadi as Jiva is. Aatma is Nirguna in limited sense. i.e. Atma’s swaroop is nothing to do with Prakritik GuNa. Prakritik GuNa Deha i.e. Linga Deha is shed ultimately.
    If Jagat is Mithya, ever our experience in this world becomes unreal. Unreal act is just a farce, as it cannot give an real benefits. As the world is real, it give real benefits of shedding ling deh.
    If you still have further questions/enquiry you can come back on this. I suggest you to read.Sarva Shastraartha sangraha ( which clarifies all your points) in the Menu under Sripadaraja of this Blog

  21. Sachin
    My statement-“Lions capability is superior to human being it’s a fact so dave was helpless”
    Sachin ans- illogical point…. My example clearly punctures your “Ghuggu Prasad” theory… Hence i won….
    My ans Not really. Lions capability is superior and dave was at its mercy and defeated so no dude you have not really won unless of course some three pages later you come up with this same crappy point and start laughing ha ha ha ha
    My statement-“Karna as still standing for fight arjuna backed out of bhargavastra hence arjuna also defeted”
    Sachin ans- Utter Lie…. Hence itself puntured… I won again….
    My ans It’s the truth. Congrats on your fake victory.
    Sachin ans- this proves your lack of understanding of MB wars…. When the main warrior’s car is damaged, he used to jump on to his suport staff’s car to get a shelter…. E.g. Yudi jumped on to sahdev’s car when Karna destroyed his car…. Karna jumped on to Vikarna’s car in Gandharva war & ran away… etc etc…. Hence it is clear that support staff was there to help the main warrio whenever his car used to break…. But Arjun cut this option of Karna by making Karna support staffless…..
    My ans. This proves your lacko of understanding of wars. A warrior who has to run away even if he doesn’t find options will run away. Jayadartha wanted to run away in the jungle episode was with out support and was in running mode and as far as chariot wheel sinking is concerned clearly arjun could not have planned that. Karna was not interested in running away at least at that stage. Which is proven by the fact that he got back on his chariot knocked arjuna and went back to his chariot wheel. If arjuna is swooned karna can run away at that time as well.
    Sachin ans- Hollow arguement…. this does not refute my point that Karna was already defeated when he gave up his weapons in front of Arjun…. Hence i won the arguement again….
    My ans what give up his weapons. He got back on his chariot and knocked out arjuna.
    Sachin ans- Non-contextual arguement…. I clearly proved that Arjun made Karna unarmed on his own steam in the middle of fight….. And in the end, As i already proved above, Karna was already defeated when he himself gave up his weapons in front of Arjun…. And even though yudhi made karna swoon or susharma/Karna made arjuna swoon BUT they could not kill their opponents… BUT Arjun killed Karna…..
    My Arjuna killed unarmed karna. All you other poinst have been refuted
    Sachin ans- So you expect that Arjun should have killed/defeated Karna at that very moment when he fired Bhargavstra ?? And when Ashwatthama fired Narayanstra ?? this is so funny….. Ab kya bachche(arjun) ki jaan longe ?? That was a serious war not a circus, that Arjun would fight only to fulfill Niraj’s demands….. E.g. McGrath bowls first ball & Mongia hits him for a Six…. But on 2nd ball, McGrath gets Mongia bowled out….. But Niraj is shouting at McGrath that why didnt he get Mongia out in the first ball only & Niraj is claiming that McGrath hadnt had the capabilties to get Mongia out when he is hitting sixes….!! Just like Niraj is claiming that Arjun hadnt had the capabilties of killing/defeating opponents when they are firing divyastra…. Funny isnt it…!!
    For your ignorant understanding, looking at the trend of MB wars, a killer first makes his opponent helpless(by breaking his bow/car, killing his support staff/charioteer etc) & then he kills his opponent….. You cannot expect him to directly kill a fully armed opponent with all guns blazing & firing Divyastras….. So give me a break with this rubbish point of yours…..
    My ans first of all stop your cricket logic as cricket and battle scenes are different. Now let me see your stupid logic supported by your ignorant example
    For your ignorant understanding, looking at the trend of MB wars, a killer first makes his opponent helpless(by breaking his bow/car,
    My ans excuse me and when did that happen in the karna arjuna battle ?
    Second statement killing his support staff/charioteer etc)
    My ans – Only support staff was killed. Charioteer killed ha aha ha.
    next
    & then he kills his opponent…
    My ans yes only when his opponent was lifting his chariot wheel Unarmed opponent.
    Next the best part of your statement
    You cannot expect him to directly kill a fully armed opponent with all guns blazing & firing Divyastras….. So give me a break with this rubbish point of yours…..
    My ans Superb bang on target Your absolutely right I agree with you. Arjuna can only kill unamred opponents who become unarmed themselves Killing an opponent with all guns blazing firing divysatras uske bas ki baat hi nahee thee. It was just beyond his limited capabilities. Its like when enemy comes with guns I am ghughuprasad. But if that enemy in mid of battle by folly after knocking me out lays down his gun on his own I can slyly get up give some irrelevant warning shot and stab him in the back.

    Sachin ans- What failures ?? Arjun could not nullify Bhargavastra, so does it prove that Arjun was defeated ?? Ha..ha..ha.. God bless your understanding….. I bet how much a neutral judge(Dhruv) would laugh at this logic of yours….. You failed to prove anything…..
    My ans Let Dhruv decide when he has to laugh or not. He was Standing helplessly in active battle like abhishek bacchan in zameen hence defeated.
    My statement-“Vrishasena was killed before the karna arjuna battle not while fighting karna not during the battle.”
    Sachin ans- Utter lie….. Get your facts right Mr Niraj….. You lost here…..
    My ans You get your facts right or may be you already know and this is an old trick of yours to send us on wild goose chase for passages from KMG
    Your statement-“My statement-“Enemy approaching with weapons warrior pisses and taken away is defeat.” Sachin ans- HAWA-MAHAL Niraj puraan claim…. Hence invalid….. My ans Since you could not refute it I have won this argument as well. Isme nayee baat kya hai”
    My ans- Ha..ha..ha.. Isey kehte hai – “Hawa mein batein karna”….. Isme nayee baat kya hai….. You failed to prove your point.. Hence i won…..
    My statement-“bhima was attacking the astra repulsed everyone including bhima. the word burnt was used but that does not nullify bhimas defeat.”
    Sachin ans- Isey kehte hai -“Hawa mein batein karna”….. Isme nayee baat kya hai…… You failed to show passages which says that Bhima RAN AWAY from battle with Karna…. so dont talk in air…… You lost this arguement as well…..
    My no where I have said bhima ran away. He was ghughuprasad in front of the astra and that’s the reason why karna captured yudhi.

  22. Same Ashvatthama who fired Narayanastra, was running here and there to save his life from Arjna. Drona’s “divyastras” did not appear at the time of his death. Karna who was searching Arjuna in the battle field, sent five kuru maharthis to check and tire out Arjuna. Karna fired Bhargavastra once again during his fight with Arjuna but
    it couldn’t cause any harm to Arjuna.

  23. Dharma`s son Yudhisthira used to serve his uncle Dhritarâstra in such a way as he might forget the pain of the death of his sons. But Bhîma used to pierce his heart by his arrow-like words that he pronounced so loud as to reach the ears of the old king Dhritarâstra. Bhîma used to-say :– “In the battle field I killed all the sons, of the wicked blind king (Dhritarâstra) and it was I that sucked well and drunk, full to the brim, the blood of the heart of Duhs’âsana. Now this blind king eats shamelessly like a crow and a dog, the mass of food (Pinda) given by me, and thus is bearing uselessly the burden of life. Daily Bhîma used to tell, thus, harsh words to him; whereas the religious Yudhîsthira used to console him, saying “Bhîma is a quite illiterate brute” and so forth. The king Dhritarâstra remained there with a grieved heart for eighteen years

  24. commentary from nilakantha.

    Arjuna was overpowered by Nikumbha . here are instances where Arjuna becomes unconscious for some time but defeats his opponent after regaining senses.

    O king, solicitous of winning great fame and desirous, for the sake of thy son, to compass the destruction of Arjuna, quickly showered upon the latter their arrowy downpours at once from his right and left. Those angry heroes, with a thousand straight shafts, covered Arjuna like two masses of clouds filling a lake. Then that foremost of car-warriors viz., Srutayus filled with wrath, struck Dhananjaya with a well-tempered lance. That crusher of foes viz., Arjuna, then, deeply pierced by his mighty foe, swooned away in that battle, stupefying Kesava also (by that act). Meanwhile, the mighty car-warrior Achyutayus forcibly struck the son of Pandu with a keen-pointed spear. By the act he seemed to pour an acid upon the wound of the high-souled son of Pandu. Deeply pierced therewith, Partha supported himself by seizing the flag-staff. Then a leonine shout was sent forth by all the troops, O monarch, in the belief that Dhananjaya was deprived of life. And Krishna also was scorched with grief upon beholding Partha senseless. Then Kesava comforted
    Dhananjaya with soothing words.. Then those foremost of car-warriors, (viz., Srutayus and Achyutayus), of true aim, pouring their arrowy showers on all sides, in that battle, made Dhananjaya and Vasudeva of Vrishni’s race invisible with their car and car-wheels and Kuvaras, their steeds and flagstaff and banner. And all this seemed wonderful. Meanwhile, O Bharata, Vibhatsu slowly regained his senses, like one come back from the very abode of the king of the dead. Beholding his car with Kesava overwhelmed with arrows and seeing also those two antagonists of his staying before him like two blazing fires, the mighty car-warriors Partha then invoked into existence the weapon named after Sakra. From that weapon flowed thousands of straight shafts. And those shafts struck Srutayus and Achyutayus, those mighty bowmen. And the arrows shot by the latter, pierced by those of Partha, coursed through the welkin. And the son of Pandu quickly baffling those arrows by the force of his own arrows, began to career over the field, encountering mighty car-warriors. Meanwhile Srutayus and Achyutayus were, by Arjuna’s arrowy showers, deprived of their arms and heads. And they fell down on the earth, like a couple of tall trees broken by the wind. And the death of Srutayus and slaughter of Achyutayus created surprise equal to what men would feel at the sight of the ocean becoming dry.

    While falling down, that dear son of Parnasa shone resplendent like a tall banian with spreading boughs broken by the wind. Then all the troops and even all the principal warriors fled away, beholding Srutayudha, that chastiser of foes, slain. Then, the son of the ruler of the Kamvojas, viz., the brave Sudakshina, rushed on his swift steeds against Phalguna that slayer of foes. Partha, then, O Bharata, sped seven shafts at him. Those shafts passing through the body of that hero, entered the earth. Deeply pierced those shafts sped in battle from Gandiva, Sudakshina pierced Arjuna in return with ten shafts winged with Kanka feathers. And piercing Vasudeva with three shafts, he once more pierced Partha with five. Then, O sire, Partha, cutting off Sudakshina’s bow, lopped off the latter’s standard. And the son of Pandu pierced his antagonist with a couple of broad-headed arrows of great sharpness. Sudakshina, however, piercing Partha once more with three arrows, uttered a leonine shout. Then the brave Sudakshina, filled with wrath, hurled at the wielder of Gandiva a terrible dart made wholly of iron and decked with bells. That dart blazing as a large meteor, and emitting sparks of fire, approaching that mighty car-warrior pierced him through and fell down on the earth. Deeply struck by that dart and overcome with a swoon, Arjuna soon enough recovered. Then that hero of mighty energy, licking the corners of his mouth, that son of Pandu, of inconceivable feats, pierced his foe, along with his steeds, standard, bow, and charioteer, with four and ten shafts winged with Kanka feathers. With other arrows, countless in number, Partha then cut Sudakshina’s car into fragments. And then the son of Pandu pierced Sudakshina, the prince of the Kamvojas, whose purpose and prowess had both been baffled, with a sharp arrow in the chest. Then the brave prince of the Kamvojas, his coat of mail cut off, his limbs weakened, his diadem and Angadas displaced, fell head downwards, like a pole of Indra when hurled from an engine. Like a beautiful Karnikara tree in the spring, gracefully growing on a mountain summit with beautiful branches, lying on the earth

    when uprooted by the wind, the prince of the Kamvojas lay on the bare ground deprived of life, though deserving of the costliest bed, decked with costly ornaments. Handsome, possessed of eyes that were of a coppery hue, and bearing on his head a garland of gold, endued with the effulgence of fire, the mighty-armed Sudakshina, the son of the ruler of the Kamvojas, overthrown by Partha with his shafts, and lying on the earth, reft of fife, looked resplendent like a beautiful mountain with a level top.

  25. The son of pR^itha (arjuna) and kR^iShNa, the ones with great souls, the conquerors of enemies, confronted nikumbha, who is difficult to be conquered, who was proceeding to the city of vajra.

    O king! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued), the one with great splendor, the best among the creators of illusions, pradyumna, also reached there. Seeing them, nikumbha made himself into three forms.

    nikumbha, comparable in strength to deva-s, fought all of them, laughing, using a heavy mace with many thorns.

    O king! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued), Holding the maiden bhAnumatI with his left hand, nikumbha again beat them with his mace, with his right hand.

    O the best among kings! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) For the safety of the maiden, neither kR^iShNa-s (kR^iShNa and arjuna), nor kAma (pradyumna) struck the great asura, nikumbha, without kindness.

    The best among the wielders of bow, the son of pR^itha (arjuna), expert in battle by all means, shot groups of arrows at the daitya, nikumbha, using the technique of nAgoShtra (see Note 1)

    arjuna shot many twelve finger long arrows at the dAnava, nikumbha, in the battle without harming the maiden, O the lord of earth! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) with his art, logic and training.

    Then nikumbha vanished from there along with the maiden, using the illusory skill of demons. No one knew about this.

    Both the kR^iShNa-s (kR^iShNa and arjuna) and the son of rukmiNI (pradyumna) followed nikumbha. Then the great demon (nikumbha) took the form of hArita bird

    O the ruler of earth! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) As nikumbha came out of the cave, the son of pR^itha (arjuna) blocked all the ways by shooting arrows using the bow gANDIva.

    nikumbha, the best among the powerful, as he came out, struck the son of pR^itha (arjuna) on the head, with a terrible mace, full of thorns.

    nikumbha vanished. The valiant son of pR^itha (arjuna) who was struck on his head by the mace became unconscious. He vomited blood and became unconscious.

    The demon, proud of his power, laughed and struck the son of rukmiNI (pradyumna).

    nikumbha having the power of illusion, struck pradyumna, the best of illusionists who was facing him and vanished. The valiant pradyumna, struck on his head became unconscious.

    Seeing arjuna and pradyumna becoming unconscious after being struck heavily, govinda (kR^iShNa) became highly angry and attacked nikumbha.

    The elder brother of gada (kR^iShNa) took up his mace kaumodakI. Those valiant, difficult to conquer, roared and attacked each other.

    indra (shakra) mounted on airAvata, along with all groups of deva-s, saw the great terrible battle between the gods and the demon.

    The lord of senses (kR^iShNa) saw the deva-s. The oppressor of enemies decided to kill the demon in a strange battle, for the benefit of deva-s.

    The slayer of keshi (kR^iShNa), having powerful arms, expert in battle, playing with his mace kaumodakI, showed a variety of techniques.

    Then the chief of demons, whirling his mace with many thorns by training, showed many techniques as well.

    Like roaring bulls, trumpeting elephants and angry wolves, they attacked each other within the instance of closing the eyelids.

    With a terrible roar, the valiant nikumbha struck the elder brother of gada (kR^iShNa) with his mace having eight bells.

    O the one of bharata race! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) At that time, kR^iShNa also whirled his great mace and struck nikumbha on his head.

    hari (kR^iShNa) touched the ground with his mace kaumodakI, for a moment. Then the perceptor of the world, the one with intellect (kR^iShNa) became unconscious and fell on the earth.

    Then the entire world became distressed, O the lord of men (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) since the great soul, the son of vasudeva (kR^iShNa) became unconscious.

    The lord of deva-s, indra himself, sprinkled a mixture of nectar and the cold fragrant water of the divine ga~Nga on kR^iShNa.

    (See Note 2)
    It is certain that kR^iShNa, the best among deva-s, had done like this by his own will. Otherwise, who is capable of making hari (kR^iShna) the great soul, unconscious, in the battle?

    O the one of bharata race! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) kRiShNa regained consciousness. He took up the discus. The destroyer of enemies (kR^iShNa) asked the wicked soul (nikumbha) to fight.

    nikumbha, the great creator of illusion, the one who is difficult to conquer, rose up (in the sky) leaving that body. The slayer of keshi (kR^iShNa) did not know this.

    The oppressor of men, janArdana (kR^iShNa) was wondering whether he is dying or he is dead. O lord, (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) valiant kR^iShNa was waiting as per the penance of valiant (of not slaying the fallen enemy – see nIlakaNTha commentary).

    Then pradyumna and the son of kunti (arjuna) regained consciousness. Desiring the death of nikumbha, they stood near nArAyaNa (kR^iShNa).

    Then pradyumna, who is an expert of illusion, realized (that nikumbha was not there) and told kR^iShNa: O Father! nikumbha is not here. The one with wicked intelligence has gone somewhere.

    When pradyumna said this, that body was destroyed. Then lord kR^iShNa laughed along with arjuna.

    Then, O the lord of men! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued), immediately, the valiant saw ten thousand thousands of nikumbha-s on the earth, sky and all over.

    Thousands (of nikumbha-s) fought with kR^iShNa, O the oppressor of enemies! (janamejaya! vaisampAyana continued), thousands fought with the son of pR^itha (arjuna) and thousands fought with the valiant son of rukmiNI. This was a wonder.

    Some of the great demons (nikumbha-s) held the bow of the pANDava (arjuna), some others held his hand, some other great demons held his feet.

    Holding the valiant (arjuna) in this manner, they rose up in the sky. Then there were crores of sons of pR^itha held this way.

    Neither kR^iShNa nor the son of kR^iShNa (pradyumna), the destroyers of enemies, could see an end to this. They cut off the nikumbha-s by shooting arrows, avoiding the son of pArtha (arjuna).

    O the one of bharata race (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued), Those split in two parts became one again. Lord kR^iShNa who had divine knowledge understood this.

    The slayer of madhu (kR^iShNa) realized the true form of nikumbha, who created hundreds of illusions, the one who took away the one, born under the star of phAlguni (arjuna).

    The slayer of demons (kR^iShNa), hari, the lord of the past, present and future cut off his head as seen by the entire physical beings of the world.

    O the one of bharata race! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) As his head was cut off, he released the one, born under the star of phAlguni (arjuna). The chief of demons fell down like a tree whose roots are cut off.

    O the one who respects others! (janamejaya! vaishampAyana continued) As the son of pR^itha (arjuna) who went up in the sky was falling down, the son of kR^iShNa (pradyumna) caught him according to the words of kR^iShNa.

    As nikumbha fell on the earth, the lord consoled dhana~njaya (arjuna). Lord kR^iShNa, accompanied by the son of pR^itha (arjuna) and pradyumna (kAma) went to the city of dvAraka.

  26. @ Niraj,

    Your statement-“Lions capability is superior to human being it’s a fact so dave was helpless”

    My ans- illogical point…. My example clearly puntures your “Ghuggu Prasad” theory… Hence i won….

    Your statement-“Karna as still standing for fight arjuna backed out of bhargavastra hence arjuna also defeted”

    My ans- Utter Lie…. Hence itself puntured… I won again….

    Your statement-“Suport staff is for battle not for picking up warriors chariot wheels of collegues”

    My ans- this proves your lack of understanding of MB wars…. When the main warrior’s car is damaged, he used to jump on to his suport staff’s car to get a shelter…. E.g. Yudi jumped on to sahdev’s car when Karna destroyed his car…. Karna jumped on to Vikarna’s car in Gandharva war & ran away… etc etc…. Hence it is clear that support staff was there to help the main warrio whenever his car used to break…. But Arjun cut this option of Karna by making Karna support staffless…..

    Your statement-“Sachin ans- Cheap EXCUSE….. If Karna gave up his weapons in front of Arjun… then this itself classifies as Defeat of Karna, because it is called as “Dushman ke saamne Hathiyaar Dalna”…. Hence Arjun had already won the dual by then…. And Arjun was ready to spare Karna’s life but Krishna knew that sparing Karna would only prolong the MB war, hence he provoked Arjun to kill him at that time only, which arjun did……My ans a third class explanation. So now Sachin has begun to respect Krishnas knowledge Shalya parva section 61 – 62 clearly says that the reason why he engineered death of duryodhana karna etc was that they could not be killed in a fair fight. Karna made arjuna inconcious and the went again to lift his chariot”

    My ans- Hollow arguement…. this does not refute my point that Karna was already defeated when he gave up his weapons in front of Arjun…. Hence i won the arguement again….

    Your statement-“No sachin he didn’t or rather couldn’t make karna unarmed. But yes a very temporary swoon like yudhi made karna or susharma made arjuna .”

    My ans- Non-contextual arguement…. I clearly proved that Arjun made Karna unarmed on his own steam in the middle of fight….. And in the end, As i already proved above, Karna was already defeated when he himself gave up his weapons in front of Arjun…. And even though yudhi made karna swoon or susharma/Karna made arjuna swoon BUT they could not kill their opponents… BUT Arjun killed Karna…..

    Your statement-“Not really. It proves you are nowhere close to me in debating”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha…ha… This is just like i am claiming-“Karna was nowhere close to Arjuna’s class”… and Niraj claiming – “No… Sachin is nowhere close to me when it comes to making Butter Chicken, hence Karna was of Arjun’s class”…!! …..

    So my point proved….

    Your statement-“Yes of course how greatly he defeated ashwtthama during naryana astra firing karna during bhargava astra firing. And bhagdatta when vaishnava astra was fired. Karna killed lifting up chariot wheel Drona could never be killed. He infact was killed by dhrishtadyumna. And when drona was firing weapons there was nothing much arjuna could do.”

    My ans- So you expect that Arjun should have killed/defeated Karna at that very moment when he fired Bhargavstra ?? And when Ashwatthama fired Narayanstra ?? this is so funny….. Ab kya bachche(arjun) ki jaan longe ?? That was a serious war not a circus, that Arjun would fight only to fulfill Niraj’s demands….. E.g. McGrath bowls first ball & Mongia hits him for a Six…. But on 2nd ball, McGrath gets Mongia bowled out….. But Niraj is shouting at McGrath that why didnt he get Mongia out in the first ball only & Niraj is claiming that McGrath hadnt had the capabilties to get Mongia out when he is hitting sixes….!! Just like Niraj is claiming that Arjun hadnt had the capabilties of killing/defeating opponents when they are firing divyastra…. Funny isnt it…!!

    For your ignorant understanding, looking at the trend of MB wars, a killer first makes his opponent helpless(by breaking his bow/car, killing his support staff/charioteer etc) & then he kills his opponent….. You cannot expect him to directly kill a fully armed opponent with all guns blazing & firing Divyastras….. So give me a break with this rubbish point of yours…..

    Your statement-“hamatkaar chamatkaar so finally Sachin admits that Arjunas failures. Killing the possessor when he is lifting his chariot wheel not firing these astras is non contextual. As the claim when they were firing divyastras arjunas status ghughu Prasad.”

    My ans- What failures ?? Arjun could not nullify Bhargavastra, so does it prove that Arjun was defeated ?? Ha..ha..ha.. God bless your understanding….. I bet how much a neutral judge(Dhruv) would laugh at this logic of yours….. You failed to prove anything…..

    Your statement-“Vrishasena was killed before the karna arjuna battle not while fighting karna not during the battle.”

    My ans- Utter lie….. Get your facts right Mr Niraj….. You lost here…..

    Your statement-“My statement-“Enemy approaching with weapons warrior pisses and taken away is defeat.” Sachin ans- HAWA-MAHAL Niraj puraan claim…. Hence invalid….. My ans Since you could not refute it I have won this argument as well. Isme nayee baat kya hai”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha.. Isey kehte hai – “Hawa mein batein karna”….. Isme nayee baat kya hai….. You failed to prove your point.. Hence i won…..

    Your statement-“bhima was attacking the astra repulsed everyone including bhima. the word burnt was used but that does not nullify bhimas defeat.”

    My ans- Isey kehte hai -“Hawa mein batein karna”….. Isme nayee baat kya hai…… You failed to show passages which says that Bhima RAN AWAY from battle with Karna…. so dont talk in air…… You lost this arguement as well…..

  27. Bhava replied, ‘O powerful one. I will give to thee that favourite weapon of mine called the Pasuputa. O son of Pandu, thou art capable of holding, hurling, and withdrawing it. Neither the chief himself of the gods, nor Yama, nor the king of the Yakshas, nor Varuna, nor Vayu, knoweth it. How could men know anything of it? But, O son of Pritha, this weapon should not be hurled without adequate cause; for if hurled at ANY FOE OF LITTLE MIGHT it may destroy the whole universe. In the three worlds with all their mobile and immobile creatures, there is none who is incapable of being slain by this weapon. And it may be hurled by the mind, by the eye, by words, and by the bow.'”

    now what is the meaning of this.

    you will use your best weapons against the best opponents. now how does it make a difference if the opponent is weak or not. if it is hurl at weaker enemy it might destroy the whole universe, so you have hurl it against a superior opponent to protect the universe.

    that means you have to hurl it against Almighty.

  28. Some part of MB is extremely hard to believe. Here is a guy Abhimanyu who is struck by many warriors, who appeared like a porcupine. Losing blood, becoming weaker. No longer in a position to fight at his best, but still he does humanly impossible things.

    He Killed 10 elephants even at such peril.

    Those days killing 10 elephants were easier than Killing dusasana son.

    only Ved Vyas knows all this things.

    ‘That joy of Vishnu’s sister (viz., Abhimanyu), that Atiratha, decked with the weapons of Vishnu himself, looked exceedingly beautiful on the field of battle and looked like a second Janardana. With the end of his locks waving in the air, with that supreme weapon upraised in his hands, his body became incapable of being looked at by the very gods. The kings beholding it and the wheel in his hands, became filled with anxiety, and cut that off in a hundred fragments. Then that great car-warrior, the son of Arjuna, took up a mighty mace. Deprived by them of his bow and car and sword, and divested also of his wheel by his foes, the mighty-armed Abhimanyu (mace in hand) rushed against Aswatthaman. Beholding that mace upraised, which looked like the blazing thunderbolt, Aswatthaman, that tiger among men, rapidly alighted from his car and took three (long) leaps (for avoiding Abhimanyu). Slaying Aswatthaman’s steeds and two Parshni charioteers with that mace of his, Subhadra’s son, pierced all over with arrows, looked like a porcupine. Then that hero pressed Suvala’s son, Kalikeya, down into the earth, and stew seven and seventy Gandhara followers of the latter. Next, he slew ten car-warriors of the Brahma-Vasatiya race, and THEN TEN HUGE ELEPHANTS. Proceeding next towards the car of Duhsasana’s son, he crushed the latter’s car and steeds, pressing them down into the earth.

  29. Sujaal during virata yudha karna was standing stunned garment taken away. By sachins logic that’s not defeat. After garment taken away Arjuna boldly entered the kuru ranks saluted kuru greats and other brave warrior and fired and arrow which knocked out duryodhana crown. But that was not battle as the battle was over. And since this is not battle ( dacoity act was also not battle hence arjuna undefeated by daciouts is sachins logic and ashwathtamas attacking pandava camp was also after battle hence noncontextual ) so here also by Sachin logic kuru army is undefeated. However if you say at virata yudha kurus were defeated yes I agree but sachins logic doesn’t.

  30. Sachin you post was in duel with Ranvijay but ranvijay did not use foul words you got into foul word usage first. Here is the proof
    Ranvijay says:
    March 31, 2014 at 10:30 pm
    Dear Anand,
    Arjuna kare to rasleela, Karna kare to Character dheela. This is not the way it runs, Arjuna got beat up by dacoits, Arjuna got defeated by Babruvahana, then too you are giving reasons, In draupadi’s swayamvar it is written in KMG clealrly written that Karna retreated because The Brahman possessed the Brahma weapon which can cause destruction, Stop trying to mend facts like a joker, Sachin ki Arjunabharat continiues here as well, The “Idiot” sachin claims that Karna gotr defeated, Its is written fact that Karna matched Arjuna shot to shot before retreating because of the Brahma weapon, Only a idiot like Sachin can say that Karna lost, Sachin you make me laugh with your mended facts, you are not believing KMG, Learn to read rather than change facts.
    Reply
    Sachin says:
    April 1, 2014 at 1:07 am
    Mr Moron Ranvijay(or whoever regular blogger you are)….. Kindly keep you thumb inside your mouth so as to suck it & so that your mouth keeps shut & so that this blog is not converted into a Kindergarten because of an Idiot like you….. Illiterate kids like you should be slapped in their butt for shitting in this respectable blog of matured adults…. Because of your posts, this blog is smelling like shit…… Yieeeeek……
    Friends Now I know Ranvijay also called Sachin idiot ( that too after getting insulted by Sachin ) but Sachin clearly up here got foul. Sachin my opinion stands. Stop glorifying your self as a sadhu. Your are lucky this guy Ranvijay did not go complaining to Mr. Dhruv. Or for that matter police for cyber crimes etc other wise you would have been in jail abusing karna happily ever after. Your sant vaanis up there are quite clear. Paapi pe pehle patthar voh uthaye jisne khud paap na kiya ho.

  31. Sachin Dhruvs warning was for both of us so stop pretending as you are some sati savitri. You and I have got into war of words and that even I can say what I said was in retaliation. Now let me tackle your stupid post and puncture it.

    Niraj,
    My statement-“So that Lion was superior to Dave just as Karna was superior to arjuna.”
    Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha…ha… Senseless & baseless arguement, hence invalid….
    My ans. Lions capability is superior to human being it’s a fact so dave was helpless
    Sachin ans- Ha..ha..ha…ha… Karna ran away twice, hence defeated…. During Sammohan he was unconcious & helpless for SIGNIFICANT period of time & was under Arjun’s mercy, hence again defeated…. And in the end whole Kuru army(& Karna) backed away from further war from Arjun(who was still standing for further fight), hence one more defeat for Karna…..
    My ans Karna as still standing for fight arjuna backed out of bhargavastra hence arjuna also defeted
    My statement-“if karna is in that mode. Isme Arjuna ki kya vah vah hui”
    Sachin ans- Because all of this poor situation of Karna was Created by Arjun only….. Arjun killed all the support staff of Karna, hence had no support staff left to help him take out his Car wheel….. along with the support staff, Arjun also destroyed all the other Cars/horses/elephants of Karna’s division, hence Karna had only one Car left to fight with, hence he could not change his car after his wheel stuck….. Karna was alone with no one for back up, hence he was scared for his safety & death, that is why he began CRYING….. Further, Karna knew that he cannot escape from his death from that situation, because Arjun had gained total upperhand over Karna by then, hence he was BEGGING Arjun to not to kill him…..
    My ans – The chariot wheel sinking cant be credited to arjuna. Suport staff is for battle not for picking up warriors chariot wheels of collegues

    My statement-“Arjunas sizzling performance was against unarmed karna karnas sizzling performance was against armed arjuna”
    Sachin ans- Cheap EXCUSE….. If Karna gave up his weapons in front of Arjun… then this itself classifies as Defeat of Karna, because it is called as “Dushman ke saamne Hathiyaar Dalna”…. Hence Arjun had already won the dual by then…. And Arjun was ready to spare Karna’s life but Krishna knew that sparing Karna would only prolong the MB war, hence he provoked Arjun to kill him at that time only, which arjun did…..
    My ans a third class explanation. So now Sachin has begun to respect Krishnas knowledge Shalya parva section 61 – 62 clearly says that the reason why he engineered death of duryodhana karna etc was that they could not be killed in a fair fight. Karna made arjuna inconcious and the went again to lift his chariot
    Sachin ans- Point which i proved here is that Arjun made the Divyastra welding-Karna unarmed on his own steam in the middle of the battle, so dont cry that Arjun hadnt had the capabilities to kill an Armed Karna hence he attacked an unarmed Karna who had kept his bow aside while taking his wheel out….
    My ans No sachin he didn’t or rather couldn’t make karna unarmed. But yes a very temporary swoon like yudhi made karna or susharma made arjuna .
    My statement-“Sachin ans- Childish claim….. whether Karna was firing divyastras or not… the end result : Arjun vs Karna = 7:0 …. So this proves that Karna was nowhere close to Arjuna’s class……
    My ans : this 7 . 0 is apparently My 7 winnings over you in debates proving you are nowhere close to me in debating.
    Sachin ans- your illogical reply proves that i proved my point that Karna was nowhere close to Arjuna’s class……..
    My ans – Not really. It proves you are nowhere close to me in debating
    Sachin ans- Arjun killed/defeated those divyastra weilding warriors fairly like Bhishma, Karna, Drona, Ashwatthama, Bhagadatt etc ….
    My ans Yes of course how greatly he defeated ashwtthama during naryana astra firing karna during bhargava astra firing. And bhagdatta when vaishnava astra was fired. Karna killed lifting up chariot wheel Drona could never be killed. He infact was killed by dhrishtadyumna. And when drona was firing weapons there was nothing much arjuna could do.
    My statement-“SAchibn ans- Naryana astra and bhargava astra DID NOT produce any result or made Karna/Ashwattham victorious…. Hence meaningless non-contextual arguement of yours…..My ans Arjuna was ghughu Prasad against them”
    Sachin ans- Even though Arjun coud not nullify Naryana astra and bhargava astra etc, still he defeated/killed its possesser(Karna, Ashwattham, Bhagadatt etc) in the end, hence your claim does not prove anything…..
    My ans Chamatkaar chamatkaar so finally Sachin admits that Arjunas failures. Killing the possessor when he is lifting his chariot wheel not firing these astras is non contextual. As the claim when they were firing divyastras arjunas status ghughu Prasad.
    My statement-“Filled with wrath and possessed of great activity, the Suta’s son, that foremost of men, laughing at the two Krishnas, pierced the foremost of Pancala warriors with well shot arrows in that battle…..HERE BATTLE HAS DEVIEATED FROM KARNA VS ARJUNA TO KARNA VS PANCHALA AND SOMAKS”
    Sachin ans- Sour loser arguement….. This shows your incomplete understanding about MB wars….. The final battle between Arjun & Karna was actually a battle between Arjun’s division & Karna’s division, where Karna was leading the division which had warriors like Ashwatthama, Kritverma, Vrishsena, Kripa etc….. similalry, Arjun was leading his division which had warriors like Bhima, Drishtdymna(with Panchal army) etc…. But Arjun & Karna were having one-on-one dual….. Hence whenever Arjun or Karna fired a Celestial weapons then obiviously that Celestial weapon was aimed at whole division as it would emit thousands of arrows…. so when Karna fired his Bhargavastra, it was fired over whole division of Arjun, hence killed the Panchal soldiers as well….. So dont give senselss claims that the battle deviated from Arjun vs Karna to Panchal vs Karna…… Even Arjun killed Vrishsena(Karna’s son) while fighting with Karna, so does it prove Karna was defeated at that time only ??
    My ans Dhuv reading here Sachin is using insulting words like sour loser so I will retaliate on the personal level as well.
    To enlighten Sachin the suppandi Vrishasena was killed before the karna arjuna battle not while fighting karna not during the battle. Karna and arjuna were in dvandva yudha mode at that time. Infact arjunas indrastra was nullified by karna at that stagge
    My statement-“Enemy approaching with weapons warrior pisses and taken away is defeat.”
    Sachin ans- HAWA-MAHAL Niraj puraan claim…. Hence invalid…..
    My ans Since you could not refute it I have won this argument as well. Isme nayee baat kya hai
    My statement-“I have shown bhima also attacking karna in that time zone along with other warriors”
    Sachin ans- Yes, but you failed to show passages which says that Bhima RAN AWAY from battle with Karna…. so dont talk in air…..
    My ans stop day dreaming bhima was attacking the astra repulsed everyone including bhima. the word burnt was used but that does not nullify bhimas defeat.