Leave a Reply

7,517 thoughts on “Greatest Warrior of All Time

  1. Smarty, Sujal, Niraj, Sachin, The Rock, Anand, Ranvijay, Subramanium/Yuvsamrat,

    Happy Diwali to all of you!

    Enjoy the festival with your near and dear ones to fullest!!

  2. Sujal,

    Dusavatar theory is there in the books so I cannot refute it. Must be something beyond human mind especially in Kaliyug. Regarding flaw it is clear that Budha was added later on since he was born in Kaliyug. So personally I will accept Balrama in that list since he belonged to earlier yuga when these books were written or recorded. That leaves us with three (Krishna, Arjun & Balram) avatars co-existing in dwapar yuga which is another amazing puzzle.
    Here I find my theory of bhakt and god making sense which explains such co-existence. Now question will be why Balram with Krishna? Since name of Balrma and Budha are disputed I may further discount Balram as Vishnu’s incarnation to answer that question. So it filters down to Krishna only but then reducing the total count of avatars as 9.
    ———————-

    Having said that now I will share with you teachings of ‘Santmat’ which is universally acknowledged by saints of all ages and religions which may throw some light on our learning in this regard –

    Paramatma (God) created Kal (shaitan/Satan) who hired souls (drops of ocean called God) from God to inhabit his creation. His creation extends from physical plane till end of brahmn containing countless universes and as many brahmas. Beyond that are the region of Par-brahmn and finally the palace/region of God which is free from duality (Ek o onkar, satnam, karta purukh, nirbhav, nir-vair) i.e. akal-purukh meaning the one who is beyond Kal or who is not kal…This Mr. Kal is the one who commands trinity and other forces, devi, devtas, laws of karmas etc.
    Guru Granth Sahib –
    “Ek oh maayi (Shakti) jugate viyaee, teen chele parbaan (trinity),
    Ek sansari (brahma), ek bhandari (Vishnu), ek laave deebaan (Shiv),
    woh vekhe un no nazar na aave, aisa ajab vidhan (none of them is aware of kal, their creator, such is the mystery)”

    All such powers of Kal holds the complete system of creation in harmony. His plan also involves sending incarnations who repair and rejuvenate world order with morality, ethics, respective yuga’s traits and related requirements. Even these incarnations cannot go beyond Kal’s realm. This means this entire creation is focused on human beings i.e. souls. The sole objective of kal’s creation is to conceal true reality of this world and of course ‘God’. Since souls are part of God they have natural inclination to seek its true home and to satisfy that urge humans start adopting various means such as worshipping forces of nature, idols, tantra, mantra, devi, devtas, jap, tap, sadhana, rituals, religions etc…during such search for God they end up worshipping ‘Kal’ and his manifestations unknowingly and not REAL God. Hence they remain entangled in Kal’s creation.

    I think this is the reason why humans over the ages have devised list of incarnations depending on their perceptions without knowing the real origin/objective of these incarnations. Vaishnavas would declare their list to boost Vishnu’s image, Shaivs would do it for the sake of Shiva and so on without realizing what is correct. So the list of Vishnu avatars could also be result of such approach. You will find similar disputes in the list of Sapt-rishis as well.

  3. They were born separately to give an example that both God and Human are incomplete without each other. Nara and Narayana are incomplete without each other.

  4. Smarty it is because Lord vishnu in form of Arjuna wants to make people understand how a human life should be lived and how one should remain focused on his Karma. He displays the best of human character for the generations to come

    reply= then why he was born separately as Krishna. now it should raise eyebrows of many people since Krishna always was adored by great personalities like Ved vyas and many others, and Shri Krishna was never regarded to be incomplete without Arjuna, whereas it was Arjuna who was deemed incomplete without Shri Krishna.

    Devraj Indra also fought against Shri Krishna , now Devraj Indra cannot be termed as unholy or can be said has done an act which goes against the Lord . but he too fought to fulfill his Duties.

  5. Sujal,

    I do not claim to be an expert on avatars. I am simply reacting to your theories. Let me refresh it for my better understanding –

    o Vishnu has ten avatars across four yugas out of which Kalki is yet to arrive. Yes/No?
    o Narsimha is one of ten avatars of Vishnu which got split into Nar-Narayana (2) whom you do not accept as Vishnu avatars but extension of Narsimha. Yes/No?
    o In fact Extended Avatar of Narsimha that is Nara and Narayana ends with the end of that Yuga. Yes/No?
    o Comes Dwapar yuga – Narayana is reborn as Krishna and Nar is reborn as Arjun. Yes/No?
    o Now Krishna and everybody else whosoever matters says both are SAME. Yes/No?
    o If your answer is YES then why is Arjun never included in list of avatars along with Krishna since they are SAME?
    o If your answer is NO then what are we debating on because I have also been saying that Arjun is no Avatar of Vishnu?

    1. Kaliyuga to arrive Lord Vishnu wants to put up two things to the people ” one is that when paap ka bhaar badhega god will take rebirth and other is HOW A HUMAN SHOULD FOLLOW IS OWN DEEDS THAT IS KARMA. BY FORM OF ARJUNA HE PUTS FORWARD HIS KARMIC THEORY AND SETS EXAMPLE OF HUMAN BEHAVIOUR THRU ARJUNA. That is the reason Arjuna is not shown as God but is shown only as a normal human.

      Now coming to dusavtara this theory itself has a flaw on 10th avatar. Some place Balarama as avatar others place Budha as avatar. If Balrama is avatar than why not Lakshamana ??. Now it would be easy for me to say that 10th Avatar is Arjuna, but books do not support this and hence i can not agree to it. The 10th avatara is a mystery unresolved even to my tutors as i have tried and ask them the same many times.

      Now let me say i have limited knowledge as i am Shah a jain and follower or Lord Mahavir. My interest towards Hinduism is immense and hence i knw this of the bit.

  6. @ Niraj,

    Your statement-“My statment of astra clash was refereed to brahma weapns. I also can post passages of ved vyasa during the aswatthama episode.”

    My ans- Superficial point…. I can also show the passages from Adi-parva in which it is mentioned that Arjun succesfully nullified the Brahmashira of Ashwatthama with his own Brahmashira…..

    And on 19th day, Vyas only warned Pandavas/Ashwatthama about the destructive effects of collision of two brahmashira, hence this part cannot be given too much weightage because we did not actually see the the destructive effects of collision of two brahmashira…..

    Your statement-“I know bheeshma did fire divysatras but Not karna. There is a passage which shows them coming towards arjuna with celesital weapons. But celestial weapons are of many calibre. .Which celestial weapons not mentoined”

    My ans- Nice EXCUSE Niraj….. Firstly, your point of “No-use of destructive weapons” because of presence of Kines/Cows at Viraat war is invalid & baseless which you cannot prove….. secondly, Arjun freed the Kines at the beginning of battle only by attacking the 1/4th Kuru army(& not the main 7 Kuru Maharathis) which was taking the kines away….. & after this the Kines run towards the Viraat capital, away from the battlefield……

    The battle between Arjun & 7 Kuru Maharathis begins after this when Arjun tries to follow the running Duryo, who had decided to run away in the begining of the battle only…… So where is the question of presence of Kines/Cows here ???? Such a cheap EXCUSE…..

    Hence all Kuru Maharathis were free to use their Celestial weapons of all kinds & they indeed did…. But still nobody could destroy the already “Indestructible chariot” of Arjun…..

    Hence this proves that the “Chariot Burning Incident” was fake Supernatural fake Interpolation & this also refutes the divinity of Krishna…..

    Your statement-“Please post karna firing bhargava astra brahmastra at arjuna at virat yudha.”

    My ans- Cheap excuse again….. Firstly, Karna(& all Kurus) indeed fired his celestial weapons in the end part of Viraat war(posted by you) when Arjun used the Sammohan to counter all of them….. so who knows whether those Celestial weapons included the bhargava astra/brahmastra etc of Karna…..

    Secondly, bhargava astra & brahmastra were not so extraordinary weapons then Varunastra, Mahendrastra etc, because bhargava astra/brahmastra were fired multiple times during MB but still they could not cause any significant destruction of either army…..

    Your statement-“In any case If KMG – mb contradaicts each other. Ie somewhere astras clashing no harmful effect and in other place astra clashing harmful affect. Thats not my fault.”

    My ans- I dont see any Contradiction in the actual Practical war description of clashing of two astras… Because throughout MB, two astras clashed, but still they only nullified eash other & never caused mass destruction….. Contradiction comes only when some character(Vyas) only predicts a mass destruction(as on 19th day)…. So this prediction stands no ground against the actual event of MB in which two astras clashed, but never actually caused mass destruction…..

    Your only fault is that you give too much weightage on someone’s predictions, rather than the actual practical war events…..

    So Niraj, you failed to prove the Validity of “Chariot Burning Incident” & i proved its fakeness with the help of Practical facts of MB only….. Hence it is proved that Krishna played no role in the protection of Arjun in MB war…..

    1. sachin i have already made it clear that mb contradicts each other I also can show the passages of astra clash phenomenon. the passages of krishna saving arjuna ie chariot burning are also mentioned in mb. coming to celestial weapons statement the fact that arjuna cut a sorry figure at kurukshetra in front of bhargava astra in it self is proof it was not fired at virat yudha.

  7. Lolls… Sanjay i thought reading your posts that you have ample knowledge about avatars. But you proved me wrong. Extended Avatar of Narsimha that is Nara and Narayana ends with the end of that Yuga. The are now again reborn in New yuga so Krishna is considered as new avatar. I thought out of the lot At least you would not raise this question.

    The purpose of Nara and Narayana was destruction of the demon and not only Kavach. Nara gave him curse, after he took Surya refuge, that he would have to take rebirth and he will be killed by him in next birth. I thought you guys know this but seems you are busy finding some little flaws in that which actually does not exist.

    I think your Karna love is not allowing you to digest the simple truth. Entire MB states that Krishna is narayana and Arjuna is nara. Krishna says he and Arjuna are one. Lord Vishnu say Krishna and Arjuna are his part that have gone to uphold dharma.

    Now if Arjuna YUga after Yuga is vanquishing people of dark qualities, asuras and khsatritayas than he has to be some divine being be it either Sheshnaag or lord Vishnu or Lord Shiva.

  8. Sujal – Not at all Sanjay Arjuna is not included in DUSAVATAR because Krishna and Arjuna are one. It is clearly mentioned in MB by Krishna. Nara narayana are not counted as avatar because they are extension on Narsimha avatar. Arjuna and Krishna are further avatar of Nar Narayana, can you deny that ?? This itself makes it clear that they are one.

    Sanjay – If Nar-narayana are not counted as avatars but extension of Narsimha then what is the REAL status of Krishna?? Going by your logic either Narsimha or Krishna should be counted? Now you want us to reduce one avatar and make 9 as final count?

    ——–

    Sujal – The one who pierces kavach would die as per boon so it is taken away. The turn is for Nara(Arjuna) to fight so he plays and active role while Narayana has to play passive role and protects Nara (Arjuna) by guiding him from time to time.
    AND,

    Sujal – Now it was Narayana who broke first kavacha and it was Nara who protected Narayana by penance. 1000th Kavach was to be broken by Nara but Sahastrakavacha takes refuge of surya dev. It was turn of Narayana to protect Nara. AND THE SAME IS ACCOMPLISHED BY KRISHNA IN MB BY PROTECTING ARJUNA.

    Sanjay – Your both statements are contradictory. If 1000th kavach had to be broken by Nara then kavach should have been there to fruitify his act. Though Niraj has refuted your point of kavach with very valid argument still I may like to add that your post is suggesting as if Arjun- the nar, came only to kill Karna and that too without Kavach. So the whole angle of dharamyudh and Kavach becomes obsolete. I am feeling more confused now…..

    ————————-

    Sujal – So your post will confirm that Arjuna was some divine avatar right. Now Lord Vishnu himself cites him as his AVATAR. Again who other than incarnation of Vishnu could have sustained Incarnation of Shiva (ashwashtama) in many face offs

    Sanjay – I wanted to show that everytime it is not that Vishnu has to trouble himself. The other incarnations are also doing same thing i.e. killing bad people as was done by the names (except Ashwathama) quoted by me. Sorry but you sensed it entirely incorrect.

    ——————-

    Sujal – Drona was his guru but still he fights him in Virata war with full force. AGAIN IT WAS DHRITYADUMNA WHO WAS BORN TO KILL DRONA. He even fights Drona on 14th day which you are citing but here Krishna reminds him of his main target which was hiding behind the vyuha. He broke Drona”s vyuha whose protection was in hands of Drona at that day his job was to slay Jayadratha before sunset and that was what he had to achieve. In a war the fight is at multiple level and not on one to one level. Challenge was posted by karna on public platform which was just a place for display of skills and not A PLACE FOR one to one combat

    Sanjay – I did not mean Virat war scenario but Kurukshetar war (Jayadratha episode) and the context was Arjun’s behavior – humanly, as kshatriya or Godly figure or else. In rangshala he is angered because Karna challenges him according to you but he is not angered when Drona challenges him. So either he had different reasons to behave differently in two circumstances or he did it deliberately:-

    o As human – He was right in both cases because he had to give priority to his personal feelings

    o As Kshatriya – He failed in Drona’s case since he did not accept his challenge but ignored him

    o As Godly figure – He proved himself in neither of the cases since he got angry (jealous) in Karna’s case and got impatient (insecure) in Drona’s case like average human being

    If rangshala was the place to show skills then why did Arjun accept the challenge which was not at all thrown at him at such a place? He should have given the same argument instead of issuing death warrant.

  9. Sanjay – Vishnu’s avatars get more footage since he is responsible for survival. Hanuman and Ashwathama have been cited as Rudra incarnations, Laxman and Balrama as Sheshnaag. Did they not do their part in helping Vishnu’s avatars achieve their goal? Lord takes avatars yuga after yuga to set an example of a human life themselves. Whether he does it himself or through others is his decision and plan. We cannot standardize that.

    So your post will confirm that Arjuna was some divine avatar right. Now Lord Vishnu himself cites him as his AVATAR. Again who other than incarnation of Vishnu could have sustained Incarnation of Shiva (ashwashtama) in many face offs.

    Sanjay – I find Arjun a unique God…

    When Drona challenges him on his face during war scenario, he neither feels abashed nor angry nor disgraced. He never retaliates with any death warrant either. Instead he ignores him and changes his path. I do not understand if it was an act of Kshatriya or God.

    But when Karna is sharing his desire with Duryo in a non-war situation, he accepts the challenge from nowhere and even issues his death warrant. He also gets abashed, angry and feels disgraced because somebody has come uninvited so he should be killed. Here also I fail to understand if it is God Arjun or Kshatriya Arjun.

    I need your help to decode this Arjun-leela…..!!

    Drona was his guru but still he fights him in Virata war with full force. AGAIN IT WAS DHRITYADUMNA WHO WAS BORN TO KILL DRONA. He even fights Drona on 14th day which you are citing but here Krishna reminds him of his main target which was hiding behind the vyuha. He broke Drona”s vyuha whose protection was in hands of Drona at that day his job was to slay Jayadratha before sunset and that was what he had to achieve. In a war the fight is at multiple level and not on one to one level. Challenge was posted by karna on public platform which was just a place for display of skills and not A PLACE FOR one to one combat.

  10. sujal boon of kavach and protection scenario was co linked till kavach or rather 1000 kavachs one fights other doing tapasya was purely due to kavachas. Indra took away the final kavach then it was arjuna vs karna.

  11. Sujal your statement “AND THE SAME IS ACCOMPLISHED BY KRISHNA IN MB BY PROTECTING ARJUNA.” Your statement would have been applicable if Karna had the kavach on and it was broken at kuruskshetra like the previous ones. But at kurukshetra there was no kavach. Indra the legendary begger had already taken it from Karna. Hence here not only karna but also dronas astras.

    1. The one who pierces kavach would die as per boon so it is taken away. The turn is for Nara(Arjuna) to fight so he plays and active role while Narayana has to play passive role and protects Nara (Arjuna) by guiding him from time to time.

  12. Sujal – yuga after yuga only god Vishnu takes avatar and not Indra. Kshatriyas, people of darkness, asuras all are only killed by avatar of Lord vishnu. If Lord being omnipresent and can even make an ant kill demons than why Lord takes avatar Yuga after Yuga ?? Those being protected by boons and weapons of God can only be killed by avatar.

    Sanjay – Vishnu’s avatars get more footage since he is responsible for survival. Hanuman and Ashwathama have been cited as Rudra incarnations, Laxman and Balrama as Sheshnaag. Did they not do their part in helping Vishnu’s avatars achieve their goal? Lord takes avatars yuga after yuga to set an example of a human life themselves. Whether he does it himself or through others is his decision and plan. We cannot standardize that.
    ——————
    Cannot comment confidently on what is written in our religious books and in what context but few spiritual insights to help us unravel the mystery –

    As there are multi-verses which are active so are the multiple planes of creation. These are Pind (our body), And (Universe) and Brahmand (collection of universes). Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh is active at all three levels. In our body they reside at chakra levels – Indree-chakra (Brahma), Nabhi-chakra (Vishnu) and Hriday-chakra (Shiva). Indree (genitals) produces new life, nabhi (stomach) digests what we eat thus giving us energy and Hriday (heart) is crucial for our living. This means brahma creates, Vishnu sustains and Shiva destroys. This is at body level. Same goes for higher levels but with larger objectives & scope of work. Then there is Shakti at Kanth-chakra which is the origin of trinity and daughter of Kaal. Kaal is the master of all of them and manager of entire creation. Law of Karmas is his brain child so that no soul can be freed from his captivity. This is why even Brahma has life span and cannot live for eternity. The real GOD or paramatma is beyond and above this creation. Kaal keeps sending incarnations and avatars to maintain law and order in his creation. He keeps punishing (narak) as well as rewarding (swarg/baikunth) souls which make them forget their true origin – region of paramatma. Now which avatar or incarnation is coming from which force of creation is difficult for us to say till we are spiritually advanced enough to know the reality.

    Till then we rely on books. Books say Vishnu has 10 avatars excluding Arjun (no mention at all in either of listings). If we include him then our books are proved inaccurate and misleading or any one out of ten listed needs to be omitted to make way for Arjun. So how you do it is up to you, Sujal!

    1. Not at all Sanjay Arjuna is not included in DUSAVATAR because Krishna and Arjuna are one. It is clearly mentioned in MB by Krishna. Nara narayana are not counted as avatar because they are extension on Narsimha avatar.

      Arjuna and Krishna are further avatar of Nar Narayana, can you deny that ?? This itself makes it clear that they are one.

      Now it was Narayana who broke first kavacha and it was Nara who protected Narayana by penance. 1000th Kavach was to be broken by Nara but Sahastrakavacha takes refuge of surya dev. It was turn of Narayana to protect Nara. AND THE SAME IS ACCOMPLISHED BY KRISHNA IN MB BY PROTECTING ARJUNA.

  13. Sujal,

    I find Arjun a unique God…

    When Drona challenges him on his face during war scenario, he neither feels abashed nor angry nor disgraced. He never retaliates with any death warrant either. Instead he ignores him and changes his path. I do not understand if it was an act of Kshatriya or God.

    But when Karna is sharing his desire with Duryo in a non-war situation, he accepts the challenge from nowhere and even issues his death warrant. He also gets abashed, angry and feels disgraced because somebody has come uninvited so he should be killed. Here also I fail to understand if it is God Arjun or Kshatriya Arjun.

    I need your help to decode this Arjun-leela…..!!

  14. Sanjay – Let me clarify I am not saying Arjun is human since I like Karna. I would rather prefer bhakt Arjun than warrior Karna because I have very miniscule (or almost negligible) understanding of God-bhakt relation. So whatever I share is based on that alone.
    Yuga after Yuga even Indra had also been defeating and killing asuras so Arjun is Vishnu only MAY not be completely true. If, however, I negate that I will be forced to accept that Arjun was Ram, Parasurama and other avatars. Then I do not know how far you will agree with me on that thinking.
    Logical thinking compels me to say if God is omnipotent he can make even an ant fight and kill the demon so Arjun, the human during many earlier births was used by God (Vishnu) for such purpose can be a logical explanation to your question.
    As per the passage Krishna is offering Sudarshan to Arjun. It does not mean Arjun has become Vishnu. Did Gandiva make him Indra? Explanation is still same God can make impossible happen. So Arjun, the human holding or using sudarshan offered by Krishna is very much possible by the grace
    of God.

    Sujal – yuga after yuga only god Vishnu takes avatar and not Indra. Kshatriyas, people of darkness, asuras all are only killed by avatar of Lord vishnu. If Lord being omnipresent and can even make an ant kill demons than why Lord takes avatar Yuga after Yuga ?? Those being protected by boons and weapons of God can only be killed by avatar.

  15. If you study the whole episode it goes like this

    Bruce lee is performing on a stage meant for him to perform and suddenly an unknown person comes in and says he can excel Bruce lee. Obviously Bruce lee would be Annoyed and will be Angry. But still Salman keeps calm and that unknown guy shows few stunts and than goes to guys who tried to kill his brother and had done all sorts of things to harass Bruce lee’s family. From there he challenges Bruce Lee for a single combat.

    Now it is too much to expect that Bruce Lee will preach Ahinsa to that guy.

    Now still some great people here think Bruce Lee is not angry but Jealous.

  16. sujal comments

    (Jealous was Karna as he without any suitable reasons wanted single combat. Combat means fight or war and not display of skills.)

    was arjuna free from jealously, how a warrior like Karna who had the ability to match arjuna was never given the chance to prove his talent by drona. that feeling of jealously was developed becs of Drona’s teaching pattern , when he chose only his son and arjuna to be fit for his higher knowledge.

  17. sujal, but why do we worship Krishna and only admire Arjuna? and why everyone like Lord Shiva , Goddess Durga fulfilled the wish of arjuna quoting it is only becs he is the dear friend of Shri Krishna

    and why Shiva let Krishna defeat Banashura but he humbled Arjuna.

    1. Smarty it is because Lord vishnu in form of Arjuna wants to make people understand how a human life should be lived and how one should remain focused on his Karma. He displays the best of human character for the generations to come

  18. Sujal – Yuga after Yuga Arjuna had slain persons having quality of darkness, who other than Lord himself did this Yuga after Yuga???. Who other than Lord himself had the capacity to hold Sudarshan ???. Here Krishna is invoking his divinity and is asking him to use higher weapons which could not be baffled by Karna.

    Sanjay – Let me clarify I am not saying Arjun is human since I like Karna. I would rather prefer bhakt Arjun than warrior Karna because I have very miniscule (or almost negligible) understanding of God-bhakt relation. So whatever I share is based on that alone.
    Yuga after Yuga even Indra had also been defeating and killing asuras so Arjun is Vishnu only MAY not be completely true. If, however, I negate that I will be forced to accept that Arjun was Ram, Parasurama and other avatars. Then I do not know how far you will agree with me on that thinking.
    Logical thinking compels me to say if God is omnipotent he can make even an ant fight and kill the demon so Arjun, the human during many earlier births was used by God (Vishnu) for such purpose can be a logical explanation to your question.
    As per the passage Krishna is offering Sudarshan to Arjun. It does not mean Arjun has become Vishnu. Did Gandiva make him Indra? Explanation is still same God can make impossible happen. So Arjun, the human holding or using sudarshan offered by Krishna is very much possible by the grace of God.

  19. Sujal,

    You seem to be lost somewhere…..posting whole passage did not change anything. If Karna is talking to Duryo about his wish for a combat with Arjun then it does not mean that he is challenging Arjun. It is a desire being shared. It is very simple and plain thing. However, Arjun seemed to be so highly impacted that he declared death for Karna. ‘Isse kehte hain kahin ki iit kahin ka roda’……

    It is not difficult for any of us to even post entire MB but that will not serve the purpose. Just one line is enough to understand. My post wanted to show you that if it was Arjun’s anger when Karna interrupted his already over ‘flow’ then why did it transform to ‘disgrace’ after seeing Karna’s skill? What was so great about it to feel ashamed or humiliated?
    Now please do not tell me that if somebody is challenged then he feels ‘disgraced’…….because I know what your reply is going to be.
    ——————-
    I will now prove once again from your whole passage what you are missing deliberately –

    ‘O Partha, I shall perform feats before this gazing multitude; excelling all thou hast performed! Beholding them, thou shall be amazed.’ (Karna is talking about his skill)

    And, O thou best of those blest with speech, he had hardly done when the spectators stood up all at once, uplifted by some instrument, as it were. And, O tiger among men, Duryodhana was filled with delight, while Vibhatsu was INSTANTLY ALL ABASHMENT AND ANGER. (Arjun is jealous….okay…angry man since his already over ‘flow’ has been interrupted by Karna…accepted!)

    Then with the permission of Drona, the mighty Karna, delighting in battle, there did all that Partha had done before. (Karna matched Arjun in skill with Drona’s permission)

    And, O Bharata, Duryodhana with his brothers thereupon embraced Karna in joy and then addressed him saying, ‘Welcome O mighty-armed warrior! I have obtained thee by good fortune, O polite one! Live thou as thou pleasest, and command me, and the kingdom of the Kurus.’ Kama replied, ‘When thou hast said it, I regard it as already accomplished. I only long for thy friendship. And, O lord, my wish is even for a single combat with Arjuna.’ Duryodhana said, ‘Do thou with me enjoy the good things of life! Be thou the benefactor of thy friend, and, O represser of enemies, place thou thy feet on the heads of all foes.” (here Karna and Duryo are talking, no challenge to Arjun, mind you)

    “Vaisampayanacontinued, ‘Arjuna, after this, DEEMING HIMSELF DISGRACED, said unto Karna stationed amidst the brothers like unto a cliff, (Why is he feeling ‘disgraced’ now? Is it because Karna is talking to Duryo or he is unable to digest Karna matching him? Obviously there cannot be any other reason since Arjun ‘flow’ cannot be interrupted anymore)

    ‘That path which the unwelcome intruder and the uninvited talker cometh to, shall be thine, O Karna, for THOU SHALL BE SLAIN BY ME.’ (Arjun is still so angry that he issues death warrant for him just for being uninvited??? Is this what you call accepting challenge?)

    Karna replied, ‘This arena is meant for all, not for thee alone, O Phalguna! They are kings who are superior in energy; and verily the Kshatriya regardeth might and might alone. What need of altercation which is the exercise of the weak? O Bharata, speak then in arrows until with arrows I STRIKE OFF THY HEAD TODAY BEFORE THE PRECEPTOR HIMSELF! (Now Karna is obliged to pay him back in the same manner)

    So actually it was Arjun who became angry first then disgraced/humiliated/dishonoured (jealous) and threatened/challenged Karna first and not vice versa. I cannot get simpler and precise than this……

    1. So you want to say he spoke that words in Duryo’s ears ??

      Jealous was Karna as he without any suitable reasons wanted single combat. Combat means fight or war and not display of skills.

  20. Krishna and Arjuna are part of Lord Vishnu. Narsimha avatar gets split into 2 head assumes for of Narayana and body assumes form of Nara.
    Krishna being the head or mind knows about hi divinity whereas Arjuna being heart or body is not aware of his divinity. In Mahabharata you will find ample occasions were Krishna, Vyasa, Narada and many more reminds Arjuna of his divinity. Now let me put Krishna himself saying it.

    Then Vasudeva, beholding Partha’s shafts baffled by Karna, said unto the former, “What is this, O diadem-decked Arjuna, that Karna should succeed in crushing thy weapons today with this? Why dost, thou, O hero, lose thy wits? Markest thou not that the Kauravas, (standing behind Karna), are even now shouting in joy? Indeed, all of them know that thy weapons are being baffled by Karna with his. That patience with which, Yuga after Yuga, thou hadst slain persons having the quality of darkness for their weapons, as also terrible Kshatriyas, and Asuras born of pride, in many a battle–with that patience do thou slay Karna today. Putting forth thy might, strike off the head of that foe of thine with this Sudarsana, of edge keen as a razor, that I give unto thee, like Sakra striking off the head of his foe Namuci, with the thunderbolt. That patience with which thou didst gratified the illustrious deity Mahadeva in the guise of a hunter, summoning that patience once again, O hero, slay the Suta’s son with all his followers. After that, bestow upon king Yudhishthira the earth with her belt of seas, her towns and villages, and wealth, and from off whose surface all foes will have been removed. By that act, O Partha, do thou also win unrivalled fame.

    Yuga after Yuga Arjuna had slain persons having quality of darkness, who other than Lord himself did this Yuga after Yuga???. Who other than Lord himself had the capacity to hold Sudarshan ???. Here Krishna is invoking his divinity and is asking him to use higher weapons which could not be baffled by Karna.

    Krishna and his part Arjuna are not maryada purshottam like Lord Rama. They are there with a purpose of destruction so one can not relate them with Lord Rama who even treated Adharmis with Dharma. Destruction of enemy was not only the purpose if that was the purpose Arjuna would have attained it with Krishna in a day but destruction of all weapons was also there purpose.

  21. I can also agree with you that jealousy and anger are two different qualities but they are not necessarily independent of each other. One may beget another depending on one’s state of mind.

    You may justify ‘abashment and anger’ of Vibhatsu as anger but why is he feeling ‘disgraced’ (shame, dishonor, discredit, scandal, ignominy, humiliation….) later on after Karna displayed his skill? Is it just because he matched him? I cannot find any other reason.
    “And, O tiger among men, Duryodhana was filled with delight, while Vibhatsu was instantly ALL ABASHMENT AND ANGER. Then with the permission of Drona, the mighty Karna, delighting in battle, there did all that Partha had done before

    WHERE DOES THE MIDDLE PORTION GO sANJAY ???????????????????? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    . Duryodhana said, ‘Do thou with me enjoy the good things of life! Be thou the benefactor of thy friend, and, O represser of enemies, place thou thy feet on the heads of all foes. Vaisampayana continued, ‘ARJUNA, AFTER THIS, DEEMING HIMSELF DISGRACED, said unto Karna stationed amidst the brothers like unto a cliff, ‘That path which the unwelcome intruder and the uninvited talker cometh to, shall be thine, O Karna, FOR THOU SHALL BE SLAIN BY ME.”

    So much disgraced that he straightaway threatened Karna with death. He is clearly agitated with somebody matching and challenging him.

    This makes me recall one incident when Ricky Ponting got out cheaply to Harbhajan Singh in India during a test match. To defy his shame or probably jealousy he deliberately shouldered Rahul Dravid without any provocation which made Dravid stare at him amazed. This is how Arjun’s state of mind is here. He cannot digest Karna’s skill and directly thinks of killing him thus pushing Karna to pay him back in same tone.

    SANJAY AGAIN DOES “KAHI KI IIT KAHI KA RODA ACT”. The actual passage clearly mentions it was karna who asked for single combat and Arjuna accepted the challenge by saying i will slay you. He thought he is disgraced by straight away without any reason being called for a one to one war. Challenge has to be replied and challenge of combat is to defeat or kill.

    SEE THE TRUE PASSAGE AGAIN

    Paka (Indra), saying, ‘O Partha, I shall perform feats before this gazing multitude; excelling all thou hast performed! Beholding them, thou shall be amazed.’ And, O thou best of those blest with speech, he had hardly done when the spectators stood up all at once, uplifted by some instrument, as it were. And, O tiger among men, Duryodhana was filled with delight, while Vibhatsu was instantly all abashment and anger. Then with the permission of Drona, the mighty Karna, delighting in battle, there did all that Partha had done before. And, O Bharata, Duryodhana with his brothers thereupon embraced Karna in joy and then addressed him saying, ‘Welcome O mighty-armed warrior! I have obtained thee by good fortune, O polite one! Live thou as thou pleasest, and command me, and the kingdom of the Kurus.’ Kama replied, ‘When thou hast said it, I regard it as already accomplished. I only long for thy friendship. And, O lord, my wish is even for a single combat with Arjuna.’ Duryodhana said, ‘Do thou with me enjoy the good things of life! Be thou the benefactor of thy friend, and, O represser of enemies, place thou thy feet on the heads of all foes.”

    “Vaisampayanacontinued, ‘Arjuna, after this, deeming himself disgraced, said unto Karna stationed amidst the brothers like unto a cliff, ‘That path which the unwelcome intruder and the uninvited talker cometh to, shall be thine, O Karna, for thou shall be slain by me.’ Karna replied, ‘This arena is meant for all, not for thee alone, O Phalguna! They are kings who are superior in energy; and verily the Kshatriya regardeth might and might alone. What need of altercation which is the exercise of the weak? O Bharata, speak then in arrows until with arrows I strike off thy head today before the preceptor himself!’

  22. sachin posts

    Childhood jeolousy is a commonly prevalent during childhood period….. Duryo/Karna/Ashwatthama were jeoulous of Pandavas during their childhood…..

    reply= sachin , i agree with you in this , but

    qualities like jealously are seen in people with ordinary mindset like us , who are human. godly people doesn’t have that . when arjuna too had that then in what sense he differs from Karna. don’t bring duryo to the discussion . Karna knew duryo’ acts were wrong and he has also done wrong by participating in those but duryo never believed what he had done was wrong.

    the point is not whether it was entirely Drona’s decision to cut the thumb of ekalavya or arjuna had some role in that. but the point is how the evil ekalvya cut his thumb on one order of Drona and how arjuna was happy too see ekalavya struggling.

    how can anyone free of jealously can be happy with that cruel act.

    Brahmashira incident , all the great like Bhisma, Drona and karna were dead by that time, so the non mentioning of their names doesn’t demean their status.

    just like, non inclusion of drona in the list of people who can break the chakravyouha doesnt mean drona couldn’t do that.

  23. Sujal,

    I can also agree with you that jealousy and anger are two different qualities but they are not necessarily independent of each other. One may beget another depending on one’s state of mind.

    You may justify ‘abashment and anger’ of Vibhatsu as anger but why is he feeling ‘disgraced’ (shame, dishonor, discredit, scandal, ignominy, humiliation….) later on after Karna displayed his skill? Is it just because he matched him? I cannot find any other reason.
    “And, O tiger among men, Duryodhana was filled with delight, while Vibhatsu was instantly ALL ABASHMENT AND ANGER. Then with the permission of Drona, the mighty Karna, delighting in battle, there did all that Partha had done before. Duryodhana said, ‘Do thou with me enjoy the good things of life! Be thou the benefactor of thy friend, and, O represser of enemies, place thou thy feet on the heads of all foes. Vaisampayana continued, ‘ARJUNA, AFTER THIS, DEEMING HIMSELF DISGRACED, said unto Karna stationed amidst the brothers like unto a cliff, ‘That path which the unwelcome intruder and the uninvited talker cometh to, shall be thine, O Karna, FOR THOU SHALL BE SLAIN BY ME.”

    So much disgraced that he straightaway threatened Karna with death. He is clearly agitated with somebody matching and challenging him.

    This makes me recall one incident when Ricky Ponting got out cheaply to Harbhajan Singh in India during a test match. To defy his shame or probably jealousy he deliberately shouldered Rahul Dravid without any provocation which made Dravid stare at him amazed. This is how Arjun’s state of mind is here. He cannot digest Karna’s skill and directly thinks of killing him thus pushing Karna to pay him back in same tone.

  24. Reader My laughter was at Sujals statmentHere karna urges forward the mighty car warriors of Dhritrashtas so it is not sure which mighty warrior has pasupata. But it makes sure that Karna did not have. He is urging car warriors mounted with this astras he is not going with this astra.No offence meant sujal but that was the only response I could think of.

  25. The statement is karna urging mighty car warriors of dhritharasthras. With sthunakarna pasupata. Very funny those warriors are not named but their astras are properly named. Where as Karna who actually defeated yudhisthira, spared his life and was named he did not have any astras Ha ha ha ha ha ha.